After reviewing the concept guide system in the library section of this site it leaves me with a question. When you are using a baitcasting reel instead of a spinning reel how do you know where the line interesects the rod blank. It is more difficult to see at what angle the line comes off of the reel. Thank you for any suggetions.

Shawn,

The intersect point applies only to spinning rods.

For casting rods, do a search for spiral or bumper wraps.

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders

Shawn Richard – As Buddy Sanders pointed out, the Fuji Concept Method and Tom Kirkman’s Intersect Method both were designed as guide spacing methods for placing line guides on a spinning rod.

Tom Kirkman’s Intersect Method is an interactive live graphical model that seeks to intuitively determine the rate & angles of choking within the funnel zone (butt guide to choke guides to intersect point) from the rod dynamics and the reel-rod geometry. Since the line comes off a revolving spool reel in a linear fashion, (and not the helical tornado of a spinner), the angle of the funnel cone is so small, the choking function’s a moot idea.

But there are aspects of these two methods which are worth keeping in mind for guide placement on rods using revolving spool reels as well. Especially if you use a Spiral Wrap, or the special form of Spiral Wrap called the Bumper Wrap (or Bumper Spiral).

Also, let’s not forget that the term “Concept” also refers to a series of Fuji line guides called the Fuji CONCEPT J-Series. The J-Series mostly pertains to the style / shape / height of the guide FRAME. The Concept FRAME is higher than the older Hardloy FRAMES, for both the Spinning and the Casting guides. This Concept J-Series comes in the ALCONITE ring or the Silicon Carbide (SiC) ring. These Alconite rings are a ceramic that is a newer formulation of aluminum oxide than the older Fuji Hardloy series, or the original gray Aluminum Oxide ring. So, a Concept-J guide may be a Spinning guide or a Casting guide. And frankly, these J-series could be used on spinning or casting rods. I would not put roller guides on a fly rod, but most line guides could be used on any type of fishing rod you want. These labels are for identifying and differentiating main design features of the guide. They are not intended to limit the line guide’s use to a particular application. That’s enough about Fuji J-guides for now. … But let me hasten to add that other brands (the Mimicators) of line guides have followed Fuji’s lead (the Innovator) and now include high-frame spinning and casting line guides like the J-Series. You do NOT have to use Fuji “Concept” line guides to have a “Concept” guide layout.

Back to the parts of the Concept System that pertain to Spinning or Casting rods. Using a line guide that has a less massive ring weight and a guide frame that holds the line ring further away from the rod blank are two “conceptual” aspects of the Concept system that are universally applicable in most guide layouts. The Alconite rings & the J-series frames accomplish this. Whether a rod is a Spinning rod or a Casting rod, less weight for the additional point masses that are the line guides is advisable, especially on lighter fishing rods. And a frame that holds the line further away from the rod blank is usually helpful.

Lower line guide weight reduces angler fatigue; improves rod-casting energy efficiency; retains the rod’s “feel” or sensitivity; retains a higher resonance frequency for the rod; shortens the damping time (that ‘after-shake’ wobble period, because a lower mass lowers the dynamic inertia) and keeps our beloved Fr. Emory Harry happy. ... B)-

Fr. Emory Harry is the ArchBishop of Canti-Lever, and since all fishing rods are technically a loaded canti-lever beam, ALL fishing rods discussed at RBO come under his auspices and are subject to the scrutiny of the “minimal-weight” criteria. Santa Claus ain’t got nothing on Fr. Emory. (“… He knows if you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake, …”). If your line guides weigh too much, you’ll feel guilty, Shawn, and you’ll come here to confess. And we’ll all jump on your case until you repent and get some lighter line guides on that rod…!!!... B)-

Oh, yeah, holding the fishing line further from the rod blank reduces line slap against the rod blank, for either a spinning or a casting rod. For a conventionally wrapped casting rod, (with all the line guides above the blank as the revolving spool reel is), a line guide with a higher frame keeps the line from rubbing the rod blank on deep flexion. This higher “bridging” may allow fewer guides to be used than with lower-framed guides.

Since any SPIRAL WRAP Rod becomes a “guides-under the rod blank” layout, (like a SPINNING Rod in the RUNNING Guides section), from the transition zone forward, a Spiral Wrap CAN borrow ideas from the Concept Method. In a spiral wrap, the guides placed in the 180 degree position (6 o’clock position, directly under the rod blank) can be spaced at fairly equal intervals, or by using a slightly expansive (geometric) progression. This may be done simply by using intervals such as TT-4-4-5-5-6-7-inches for these running guides.

The Spiral system of your choice will lead you thru the determination of the proper guide placement in your transition zone. See RodMaker Magazine back issue RMM-8(2) pages 16-17 April 2005 for THE reference on Colby & Kirkman’s BUMPER WRAP. Do NOT rely on the freebie information posted on RBO. It is too disintegrated. IMO, until you have read the Article and studied the 2 diagrams & 2 photographs that accompany the Article’s description of HOW & WHY to do it, it is FAR too easy to misunderstand it.

Final line guide placement for ALL rods should be determined by a Static Distribution Test / Static Load Test. The objective is to fairly evenly distribute the load along the rod blank’s length while subjecting the rod to several extents of loading. The line passing thru the guides should have an angle that is fairly consistent along the rod blank. Some rod-builders use Don Morton’s Equal Angle Method & Grid for this step in guide placement. … Just keep it simple. Keep asking Q’s, and grasp the basics. You’ll get thru this start-up period. The deeper mysticism will come later. … Best Wishes, Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****

Q: "What concept guides do I use."?
- Shawn Richard <[email protected]> -
Refer to MudHole 2006 Catalog, pages 64-5 and 67-68.

FUJI CONCEPT J-SERIES LINE GUIDES

Y-FRAME, SINGLE-FOOT, 2-LEG, ALCONITE-ring (xYAG)
J-SERIES Guides. Y = Y-frame. A = Alconite. G = Guide. B = Black.
BYAG-mm-J: 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm
CYAG-mm-J: same sizes as BYAG. Chrome over SS.
BYLG-mm: Hardloy Ring (xYLG) - 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8mm
YSG-mm-J: Silicon Carbide (SiC) Ring (S) - Stainless Steel frame
30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm
TYSG-mm-J: Titanium-frame (T), SiC Ring (S) -
30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm

Lite N-FRAME, DOUBLE-FOOT, 3-LEG, ALCONITE-ring (xLNAG)
J-SERIES Guides. LN = LITE Casting frame. A = Alconite. G = Guide.
BLNAG-mm-J: 16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm
CLNAG-mm-J: same sizes as BLNAG. Chrome over SS.
LNSG-mm-J: Silicon Carbide (SiC) Ring (S) - Stainless Steel frame
16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm
TLNSG-mm-J: Titanium-frame (T), SiC Ring (S) -
16, 12, 10, 8, 7mm

Medium N-FRAME, DOUBLE-FOOT, 3-LEG, ALCONITE-ring (xMNAG)
J-SERIES Guides. MN = MEDIUM Casting frame. A = Alconite. G = Guide.
BMNAG-mm-J: 40, 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8mm
CMNAG-mm-J: same sizes as BMNAG. Chrome over SS.

The price for FUJI Ti-SiC or SiC-SS guides is
several times the Alconite-SS or Hardloy-SS price.

Again, other brands of line guides now basically offer their
series of line guides that mimic Fuji's Concept J-Series at
similar prices. -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****


P.S. - To order a back-issue copy of the Bumper Wrap Article,

"The SIMPLE SPIRAL WRAP: The BUMPER SYSTEM"
Author: William "Bill" Colby [RMM-8(2)]
RodMaker Magazine Volume-8, Issue #2, pages 16-17
Back issues ($7 each) available at www.rodmakermagazine.com

The 2 photographs and the 2 illustrations tell it all, and
they clarify much of the confusion of the earlier Posts made
before Colby's Article in RMM-8(2) was widely available to
most subscribers of RMM. ... -Cliff Hall+++

All I can say Cliff is dang :) Is this a manuscript for a thesis paper :)