Got a bit of a quandry here guys........
Spoke to maderia today and they informed me that ALL their poly neon 40wt thread is 100%polyester ??????
After the feed back from the other day is this poly going to be ok on the grounds that it is impregnated with silicon .... I was under the impression that polyester "fluffed up when you burnished it then applied finnish


HELP now I`m really confusd
Allen

Rayon is the one you don't want to use. Polyestor is fine. All sewing threads (I think) have a coating for sewing machine use but as long as you use CP, you will bw OK



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Hi Allen. Proof is in the Puddin' Check out the Picture board, there are plenty of examples both of fancy wrapping and I ahve even done some guides that way. Not my favorite for flat work but it can be used. I havent had a fluffing issue and there arent many who are as rough on thread than me. I use CP on it to cure the silicon problem.

Allen, here is some puddin as Doc said. This thread is easy to work with. Just use CP. I didn't use CP on the fish wrap and it can out just alittle darker. Oh, luckly, no "fish eyes" either.

www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1352/cat/500/page/1

www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1591/cat/500/page/1

www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1182/cat/500/page/1

The only "fluffing" you'll get with polyneon 40 is when a packing tool slips and you gouge into the thread, not unlike the result you'd get with other threads. Its not a "fuzzy" thread like a standard polyester sewing thread or some of the nasty rayons. IMHO.

Jim, you've done some incredible threadwork. But you say you coated the madeira without using CP and had minimal darkening and no fisheyes....are you a magician? lucky? or have a secret you'd like to share? lol.

Gentlemen. . . Thought I'd pass on some info to you regarding polyester yarn, thread, fibers, etc. I have a little knowledge I gained from 20 years in the carpet yarn industry. According to Maderia, their thread is "solution dyed." That's a fancy name for saying that it is dyed like a carrot. You cut a carrot in two and you see that the orange color extends all the way through the carrot. The dying system of their polyester yarn is the same, the color extends all the way through the fiber. The Maderia thread is made of a group of single continuous filaments wrapped around each other to form a single thread. The reason the rayon fuzzes is because it is made from a yarn made from thousands of choped filaments that are spun together to form the thread. The "solution dyed" system of dying makes it difficult for the yarn to be stained since the color in the stain will not penetrate the fiber, thus not changing the color of the yarn. Bleach will not attack the color of a solution dyed fiber. UV rays from the sun may not cause the polyester to fade as easily as fibers that are not "solution dyed." Most nylon is dyed like a radish. White on the inside and color on the outside. The UV rays from the sun can cause some color loss to nylon that is not "solution dyed." The UV rays can also cause the thread to become brittle. My guess is that the CP doesn't saturate the polyester fiber, but must encapsulating the fiber or forming a barrier over it. A chemist from the textile industry could probably explain why "fish eyes" appear when CP is not used.

Bob Turpen

Very interesting, Bob If I'm understanding you right, you're saying that polyester threads may fade less than, say, nylon???

Mike, I am not a magician. I am lucky ONLY at certain times. No secrets here, but you probably could give me a few. But, I don't take any chances and use Color Lock. I have done three wrap and coated with LS Supreme finish only. Never got "fish eyes" either. Below is a link to a color lock test I did.

www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1462/cat/500/page/1

Thats cleared thet on up thanks ..
As for the fish eyes maybe i can explain that one away. silison is an inpenetrable substance an being a lubricant nothing effectivly can stick to it (try waxing the car then rubbing it down and respraying it result = disaster the paint "runs off " the silicon causing fish eyes.
in the spray trade they use a product called panel wipe to remove sicicon from the panel before they spray. (maybe I`ll get round to testing this with thread too )the cp being a PVA based product sits on top of anything because of its molecular makeup ( I have used good old white wood glue before and had no real difference in performance to cp ( although what it will look like in 5 years i dread to think)
thanks for the help and hop-e this bit helps others
allen

Thanks for the reply Jim....I was just hoping to hear that there was SOME kind of way to deal with madeira with no CP and no fisheyes!!!

To answer Mike's question. . . the "solution dyed" polyester will have a greater resistance to the sun's UV rays than thread that is not "solution dyed." I do not know if the nylon thread used by this industry is "solution dyed." Some polymers are so inert, the only way to dye the fiber is to "solution dye" it. Nylon is one miracle fiber that can be dyed either way.

There is a similar post frmo about 18 months ago? made by Lynn Huffman. He also works in the textile industry, might wanna do a Search with his name.