24 hrs ago I set the reel seat with 2 part epoxy on the rod I am building. I noticed tonight that it has not cured and is still sticky. I checked the mixing dish I used and touched the left over epoxy and it is still like sticky chewing gum. I am building this rod in my basement which is about 60-62 degrees. I have put a small heater by the rod to slightly heat it in hopes that it will cure. Is there anything I can do to help the epoxy to cure or am I doomed to strip it off and start again. If i have to strip it what should I use for a solvent to get it all off? I hope someone has a good solution to my problem - thanks
Jeff

If it doesn't cure, then it won't be terribly hard to remove. I'd wait a bit before I made that decision. Epoxy can take a bit longer to set in cold temperatures. If you can carry it into your house and keep it at room temperature overnight you'll know by morning if it's going to set or not.

Most epoxies require a reasonably close 1 to 1 mix in order to set up properly. Too much hardener is just as bad as too little. But you can worry about that tomorrow morning once you see if it's going to set or not. Granted, after 24 hours already, it's not looking good, but bring it into a warmer place for the next 10 or 12 hours and see what happens.

.........

I did some testing of various ratios of hardener to resin and if you were up to a 10th of a gram off of an ideal 50/50 mix it can take up to three days to cure, Your basement could be a tad bit warmer but as it is about right, humidity will have an effect also, inaccurate mixing , cold temps and high humidity all retard curing times. A Mixture that was 1.5 , 10ths of a gram off resfused to cure entirely. You can wait out the thread epoxy to see if it cures after three days and if not put a another coat over the 1st this often will get into the 1st coat and seems to steady it up a smidge more. I have tired various mixtures and while the 50/50 is recommended here, and by the mfg's, I find that a 5 to 4 resin to hardener mixture hardens very nicly in 8 hours everytime, but I also weigh both amounts of the differing viscosity components, this makes epoxy last a very long time, as you use so little. I also find that adding more hardener does not cure things moreover, too much hardener was the trouble in the 1st place, in that the hardener is the thicker of the two components to be accuratly measured mixed, and the one most often overdosed as a result of inaccurate measuring....counting drops is....right out. Some heat things up, I weigh.

Have faith! Place in the corner of your warm and toasty bedroom and get a good nights sleep. Surely the rodbuilding Gods will smile on you in the morning. If this is like most of the two part epoxies for seat bonding it will be fine. The exact measurements are not a requirement like in thread covering finishes. Just to be safe say a small prayer for the rod before you go to sleep!

Gon fishn

I also "weigh" my epoxies. But the hardner and the resin are NOT the same density. You can't mix it 50/50 by weight and get a true 50/50 volume mix. And the epoxies that we use are designed, and must be, mixed 50/50 by volume.

I played around watching levels of my epoxy bottles fall as I used out of them until I developed a method, using a scale, that mixes the epoxy exactly 50/50 by VOLUME. It's worked well for over 20 years. I've never even tried a syringe yet...

Part A (resin) is denser than Part B (hardner) and if mixed by weight, you don't get enough resin in the mixture.

Putter
Williston, ND



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2006 08:17PM by Randy Parpart (Putter).

Chris,

He's talking about epoxy adhesive, I think. And humidity won't have any effect on epoxy cure time.

Most epoxy adhesives have a little greater margin for error in mix ratios than do the epoxy finishes. This is one reason why we recommend using syringes for measuring epoxy finish components and mixing at least 3ccs of each component part. This gives you a little more margin for error, although smaller amounts, perfectlly measured, are fine if you achieve that 1 to 1 ratio on the nose. It's just that's it sometimes harder to do with small amounts.

.......

our epoxy components both the liquid for threads and the paste for bonding components are intended by the manufacture to be measured by VOLUME not by WEIGHT. All compounding by the manufacture is done on weight basis for the individual components that go to make up the amine side and the epoxide side of the finished product. However the finished product MUST be mixed by VOLUME. The epoxy and its integral components in the resin side of the two part component are considerly heavier than the amine and its integral components, therefore, weighing of the two components for the purpose of obtaining a useable mixture will result in considerable error and resultant poor performance. All manufactures of epoxy compounds plainly state on their instructions to measure by VOLUME. To ignore these instructions and weigh out the components, is pure folly based on ignorance of facts and a total lack of any chemical background.
Epoxy compounds are very sensitive to temperature --- however HUMIDITY whether high or low has absolutely no effect on the curing of any epoxy compound. Almost all of the two part systems in our rod building world have a thicker heavier more viscous resin, with a thinner lighter less viscous hardener. It is simply the nature of the beast that that the components that go up to make a resin are thicker and heavier than the lighter components that go to make our hardener systems.
Ralph

Another good reason to use Rod Bond!!!!!!! Very forgiving, takes very little to work, sticks where you put it and I have NEVER had any type of mishap with it!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Ralph,

What would happen if you diluted a small amount of hardener with denatured alcohol and then painted over the sticky finish with the diluted hardener. Would you be able to get enough permanation to get additional crosslinking? I have never had this problem but have thought of it several times. I strongly recomend syringes designed for measuring each component by volume.

Ed Smith

There are two epoxy systems being talked about in this thread. One is the thing we use as bonding agents to stick two or more things together and the other is the system that we use to apply over thread that most of us all call finishes.

There may be some new builder that is reading this board that does not realize that we are talking about two different things. The mixing of LS Supreme is a totally different animal than smushing up a stack of Rod Bond.

I am now wondering if the guy who started this thread with what I "assumed" with an "adhesive" question could have possibly mixed a thread finish incorrectly and used it to install a real seat.

Gon Fishn

Here is an update of my situation. The expoxy I used is sold by Cabella's as part of their "premium" rod building kit. It is a two part bonding epoxy that comes in two packets that are attached to each other. The instruction call for folding the two packets together and squeezing out the entire contents of both packets at the same time. Then you mix the packets thorougly while trying to minimize air bubbles. Where I went wrong was by trying to be frugle. I thought using the entire packet was a waste of good epoxy so I tried to mix 50% of each packet by squeezing out half simultaneously. Obviously I didn't get as much hardner in the mix. After 2.5 days and applying light heat, the epoxy still hasn't cured. Tonight I will be pulling the entire multipart reel seat off and trying to start over. Does anyone know if paint thinner will help clean off the gooey epoxy that hasn't cured? Also what do you recommend using to wipe off any excess epoxy that squeezes out of the reel seat when you slide it on over the masking tape?

Next time I will mix the entire paket and waste 50% of the material - live and learn I suppose. I don't imagine that I am the first to have something like this happen =0)
Thanks,
Jeff

I use 91% Isopropyl alcohol for cleanup and pipecleaners to remove excess epoxy from joints. paper coffee filters are very much lint free and make good paper towel substitutes for general cleanup with alcohol. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

I use rubbing alcohol; isopropyl for clean up of those gooey messes and extras showing up where they shouldn't be.

I don't saturate an area after it's glued up; the alcohol could get into the area to be glued and wreak havoc; I just use a slightly wetted towel and wipe with that.

I also use a white plumber's teflon tape (1" wide) to mask the reel seat threaded area just to be sure and remove it BEFORE the adhesive sets up. I rarely get any on those threads, but they're so difficult to clean up that the time is worth it.

Putter
Williston, ND

While I am sure the prefered and most accurate way to mix thread epoxy is to do it by volume, dispite that for many years the mfg's instructions indicated that one method was to count drops of the varying viscosity "A" and "B" part mixtures, in an often ineffective and misleading attempt to produce a 50/50 mixture, I sought something better but more importanly consistanly repeatable. Given the once inheriant inaccuracies of the mfgs recomendations, even with their stop-gap WARMING remedies;

I had to come up with a more accurate pre-syringe volume method of achieving consistant repeatable success. So through scientific study I must have stumbled upon a weighed mixture method that closely duplicates this desirable 50/50 volume, and it works consistanly at a 5 to 4, resin to hardener mixture, right out of the room temp. container. (measured in 10ths of grams or broken down into smaller prportional incriments) Necessity is the mother of invention, go figure...all the ways to skin a cat, especially when the professional cat skinners once lead you somewhat astray?

Now to date the easiest way to achieve repeatable success is to use syringes and I would highly recommend using them as does everyone else here, But for mixing small amounts with repeatable success I'll still weigh things out because I found another way to consistanly succeed in a time when the professional recommendations resulted in questionable results. Moreover the ecomonic savings in my thread epoxy usage and forgoing the nominal measuring syringe cost have saved me far more than any other method concieved then or now. I was saving more in thread epoxy long before the newer, in vogue, rod building innovation was to measure volumes with syringes. But I imagine that the possibility of using syringes has also been around for a long time, it was just not as highly disseminated as it is now in the age of such useful tools a this site

Chris, that's why I developed the "weigh" system also. Syringes just weren't the vogue back then. The information wasn't there for me, either.

And, like you, I sure don't think my system is for beginners here. Syringes are here and they're highly accurate-that's the way for others to go.

For me, it ain't broke, and I ain't fixin' it.

Putter
Williston, ND

Jeff,

Hopefully, warming the assembly a will allow you to pull it apart. The heat from a closely placed 60 to 100 bulb may be all you need, but do be careful not to burn or scorch the components.

Try to clean up with ISP alcohol if possible. Denatured alcohol is a good second choice and if that won't do it, move to Acetone. Prepare a water-break-free surface and try again. I think you know what to do with regard to measuring and mixing your epoxy now. Always cheaper to use a bit more and save the time of having to redo something.

...........

Jeff
I know that I'm treading on thin ice here, but I have to disagree with the master. Denatured alcohol is not a good second choice--it is the FIRST choice. Denatured has considerably greater solubility factor than does Isopropyl, and will do a much better job of dissolving the crud from the bad mixture. Iso should be the second choice, but be sure and use 90% iso and not 70% which is the usual drugstore variety. You shouldn't have to use Acetone--just get it good and warm and judicious usage of Denatured and lots of elbow grease should do the job. Also hint hint hint, next time use a good proven bonding agent that doesn't have wierd mixing problems and you won't get into such situations.
Ralph

Jeff - did the two part epoxy you used originally get hard or did you end up taking it off? You started all this and I hope you got your rod back where you wanted it to be.

Now I must disagree with ALL of the posters, experts, old timers and masters who have contributed their thoughts to this very interesting thread.

I will not eat a properly weighed piece of Cajun Spiced Jerky unless it has an appropriate volume of top quality mustard smushed all over it!

Gon Fishn

Bill, I'd 'weigh'-ger that beer'd go good with that jerky (or is that the other way around...).

Putter
Williston, ND

Guys - thanks to your expert help I was able to pull the reel seat off last night, clean it up and apply fresh epoxy with hardner. This time I used the 5 min epoxy in a syringe and it worked great ! It was set in 5-10 mins. i then moved on to the cork andle and the bore was way too small so it took me close to an hour to get it to size. I epoxied that on and everything is looking good now. I hope to start wrapping the guides soon. Is is common that the bore in the cork handle is less than 1/2 the size it needs to be? It was actually too small to get the rat tail file in until I drilled it out.

Thanks for all your help so far - I'm SURE I will have more questions as I get into the wrapping.
Tight lines,
Jeff