I just got a call from a local shop that wants to develope a "relationship" with me for building custom rods for their customers and complete repairs. I have been building rods for a little over a year and have sold a dozen or so -- but always directly to the end-user. I have reviewed the pricing articles in RodMaker Magazine (I couldn't find one of the three issues on pricing, but did review Vol. 8 -- Issues 3 and 4 . . . the third is probably somewhere in the shop under a box of guides!!!), and I did not see this "wholesale" issue addressed, and not much on pricing on repairs. THE TACKLE SHOP OWNER IS MEETING WITH ME THIS AFTERNOON! PLEASE -- ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! My price list for him is (currently) as follows:

Custom rod: Retail components + $100 + $5/ ft.
Diamond wrap or chevrons: $45
Closed wrap, series of 7: $70
Woven Names, 25 thread, Cursive writing: $7.50/ letter
Simple Nine-thread names: $3.50/ letter
Cork handles from rings: $3/ ft.
Simple guide replacement: Guide + $10
With underwrap or trim bands: add $5.00 for either, $10.00 for both
Tip replacement: $5
Single break rod repair, $35
Grip or reel seat replacement, $45

I live in the Southern California market, am retired and build rods "for fun and profit", but not to put beans on the table.

My appreciation in advance!

JC
JC's Fishin' Sticks
<jcsfishinsticks.com>

I think you have done a pretty fine job developing a price basis. The issues with the dealer will be rooted in the following. His normal mark up on items in his store is something like "45 points". That is their lingo. He has to buy and pay for stuff to sell in his store and he expects the above for his required return on investment.

Now: If he wants you to discount your prices to him that amount so the customers can get the product for your base price my answer would be no. It also is based on when he pays - when the custom stuff comes in his door or when it is sold and collected for. This issue is really a difficult path to walk that is fair to everyone - especially the customer. If you can make an arrangement where you can get the price you want and he can make the profit he wants at the same time please get on this board and tell all of us how you "swung" the deal.

Remember when dealing with him that your labor is really not the only issue. The cash flow required for a proper inventory will be on your ticket for his free use.

The dealer may be in a cash flow bind and looking for an out to help him deliver products to customers at a real value.

Here is his side of the coin that is diffult for YOU to deal with. To move your rods HE has to want to sell one of them more than the wants to sell one from the rack. A customer walks into his store front with $ 200 to spend on a rod. He makes 45 points if he sells one he has on the rack. What real incentive does he have to sell one of your customs and make less? This is the concept that really requires a complete sales approach by YOU to HIM! Better rods, personalized task specific rods, selected color, selected quality, flock, weaves and on and on and on.

The repair issue is not near as difficult to deal with. Be sure if you carry the inventory to command the majority of the revenue. This will remove a headache from his shoulders and you will be the one carrying the load.

I had a long long talk with Jesse Buky on this exact matter. Jesse is pretty savy and his final comment was that custom builders who want to be self supporting need either special skills with a loyal following or a strore front to sell their custom rods from.

Putter, this is one of those quickly typed answers to a thread on this board that could open a can of worms - QUICK! Weather cancelled tuna trip!

Gon Fishn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2006 01:02PM by Bill Stevens.

Those prices seem fine to me, if you can live with them. The sticking point will be as Bill mentions - the shop owner is going to expect to be able to achieve a certain mark-up on the rods. Most general fishing tackle stores selling rods and reels rarely make more than 7% to 10% over their cost these days (one reason why they can't seem to stay in business long) but there are more and more items being produced and sold at "keystone" mark-ups (the dealer doubles his money). The fly fishing industry has been this way for a long time (one reason why fly shops generally do better than regular bait and tackle shops).

At any rate, the shop owner may ask you to reduce your prices so that he can make more on his end. I think if I were you I would hold my ground and simply tell him that he'll have to mark the selling price up to the point where he can make what he needs to make on each sale.

Custom rod builders who enter into such relationships with shops have to be careful - it's quite often a very difficult relationship. You'll see.

In the area of repairs, you could do a robust business just replacing guides and tops. And... it does two things for him that you need to point out - it brings people into his shop, twice. Once to drop off the rod and once more to pick it up. Offering rod repair is one area where a tackle shop can really increases their traffic and ultimate sales, even if they don't add on anything to the repair charges. Many shops I know simply add a token $1 fee for handling and allow the rod builder/repairman the fulil margin on repairs. They're happy just to offer repair in order to increase traffic.

..........

Jim,
Just sent you an email. Randy.

Jim,
I agree with the others that your prices seem reasonable with two exceptions.
1. Who is going to floor the finished custom rods? If you are not going to get paid until the rod is sold then the shop owner cannot expect as high a mark up and your profit margin should be better.
2. In your area you are likely to get quite a few heavy duty off shore rods to repair. For these rods your prices are probably not nearly high enough. For example your prices for a tip replacement, a broken rod or a reel seat replacement may not even cover the cost of the components. Some of these components, like roller guides for example, can be very expensive.

Ya done REAL good, Bill.

After doing that exact thing through two local dealers, all that I can say is that I'd never, ever do it again. Both times I was shafted badly. The tackle dealer's not in that game with you (me) in mind, and a repair where the customer never picks it up-it wound up being on me every time. Try to sell that ol' junker that you fixed up to someone else to recover your labor and parts... Now, if you can get the shop owner to pay you when you bring the repairs in, and HE sells the repair if the customer never picks it up, that'd work much better.

Much better putting out your own shingle. The customer definitely gets a better deal and the middle man who isn't looking out for your interests, only the customer's, is out of the equation. That's how I can best summarize how I'd do it looking back. Both situations, I tried to get the dealer to take the repairs and pay me immediately upon my bringing the repair in to them, but they would not agree to it.

The problem with putting out my own shingle was the amount of time that customer took of mine @#$%&'ing about fishing, etc, every time they came in with a repair and then again when they picked it up. Turned a 20 minute guide repair into 4 or 5 hours of my time...


Putter
Williston, ND

Although I have not yet started my rod business except for some rods sold due to word of mouth.
I agree with Putter.
Customer service can be a fine balancing act. You want to be helpful, pleasent, and make
the customer feel that they have your complete attention and at the same time you need to get some work done!
That is why I personally will pay a bit higher price to those vendors who go that extra mile and take time with me
if I need it. Several of the board sponsors not only go that extra mile but their prices are low as well. Sometimes
it's hard to see how they do it!!

Good Luck Jim!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Emory,

I have been asked by several people to make a number of "custom" rods for them to resell. I have always told them, "no", because, to me, custom means CUSTOM and each rod is made to that fisherman's specifications. So, I make them one at a time with that person in mind and measurement. I don;t know what this guy has in mind as far as taking the custom orders, referring directly to me, but through his shop (physical orders and puck-ups, etc., or what. It will be interesting to find out and I will report back to the forum! You are right on the repairs, though. The prices I drafted, though, do not include the components. I found out, like some others have, that some cheap SOBs will want the best for the least! That doesn't work!

Putter,

You make an EXCELLENT point. I will talk to this guy about payments -- up-front payments by the customers, maybe 1/2 down, something like that and see what happens. Again, I will let everyone know what happens. Thank you all for your input!

JC

Your pricing seems in line with what I charge here in Wisconsin.

Only thing different that I can see is that I put a few custom rods in a shop for "show and tell" The shop owner sells one or gets an order for a rod, I build it and he receives 10 %. (after all , he doesn't have anything invested except some spare space, so he isn't concerned with his margin, which is normally 40%)

On repairs, I charge $10.00 for a guide replacement, and the shop owner pays me when I bring the repair back to him, he inturns charges $12.00 to the customer. (I had the shop owners start paying me for the repairs because of the problem of customers not picking up their rod,,, one hasn't returned, this year will be #5 !!!!

So, I told the owners of the shops that "I get paid in advance from the customer on repairs", they didn't feel comfortable asking their customers for front money, so they desided to pay for the repairs themselves and collect the money from their customers. (you see, most of the customers are regular customers to the store to begin with, they are usually "friends" of the store owner)

On truely custom rods, (rods that are not in the store for show and tell) are paid for by the store owner when I bring it in.

That is the way it is, otherwise they can go to Wally-World as far as I am concerned.

Hope this helps ya.

Don't play down rod repairs! They can be VERY lucrative. I have a local tackle shop that refers all their repair requests to me. Their only involvement is to give out my phone number. The amount of repairs (mostly guide/tip replacements) will be paying for my trip to Charlotte and an assualt on Andy's trash cans, this year. Actually, not having the shop involved works much better for me since it brings the people to me with their repairs and that one on one meeting has resulted in numerous custom rod sales as well as word of mouth referrals.

I look at every repair as a potential custom rod sale once they are in my shop and see my work, For many of them, it's the first time they have ever looked at a custom rod and gives me the perfect chance to explain the benefits and compare them to what they are fishing with now!

I DON'T want the dealer remotely involved with handling repair money! I want the customer to bring ME the rod and pick it up from ME. Having the dealer do it, keeps the customer from dealing with me and my seeing my work. He can't see what I do and I can't show him my work if all his dealings are with a dealer. IMO, that's not a good way to promote yourself, especially when starting out. I have built a LOT of custom rods for "repair" customers who have become regular custom rod customers.



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2006 07:02PM by Mike Barkley.

Jim,
I understand where you are coming from but I think that what is and what is not a custom rod may be a question of degree and not necessarily whether or not it is built for a particular fisherman. For example, If I take a blank and extend it so that it has different characteristics than the original blank and is better suited to a particular fishing application and also unlike any rod available from any rod manufacturer, is that a custom rod? I would argue that it is even though it is built with a fishing applicaion in mind and not tailored to an individual. On the other hand if you build a rod from a standard blank with a normal handle and reel seat and guides just like a rod manufacturer uses on it and then just wrap a diamond wrap on the butt in the colors that a fisherman likes, is that a custom??

Jim - Emory

This is really not on the pricing subject but is kinda classic to the answer of what a custom rod is or can be. Take a look at the link below - these rods were not built for a particular customer but I feel they certainly qualify as Custom Rods. This concept supports Emory's side quite well. The marketing skills of the builder can take advantage of a lot of different cirrcumstances.

Hunt long and hard for rods like these on production shelves.

A very narrow definition of what constitutes the definition of a custom rod may prove to be damaging to a lot of builders with different views.

Emory: These are on the Lams you helped us with. We love them!

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Gon Fishn



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2006 10:02PM by Bill Stevens.

Maybe you can work a deal where you put a few rods for show and tell. Put a pamplite on each of what they are and why they are better then the others there.
Then have cards at the desk, if you get a ' buying " customer from him, give him a cut, this way you are dealing with the customer your self and can explain things like Concept guide placement, and Stress testing.
Look at what he sells, and try to figure how and at what price you can do it for and do it better.

Bill B. : Your idea is one that normally will be tried by most. Here is the problem with that type of concept. It may be fine for the builder but he is not the guy that owns the store. When the store owner sees the money walking in the door he wants to get it in his pocket as soon as possible and maximize the profit on the sale.

There are a lot of incentives for the store owner to sell rods from the rack. For instance, if he is handling Loomis, high dollar, his cost floor for those rods is based on his volume. If he reduces his volume on the store rods he may have to pay a higher price for his next order or even loose his rights to get another extension to his yearly allotment.

If he has a well healed customer come in the door who will spend big money for a rod he has to consider just what the total impact is on his business to sell a custom rod. We as builders need to build a case where the incentives to the shop owner will be shifted to our side. This is difficult but possible.

Gon Fishn

Emory,

My answer would be, "Yes". They are both custom, because they are not what one can buy off the rack. I have just had it suggested tom me that I build some rods "just like the manufacturer, but use some different colors and sell them as "Custom". No soap radio. I agree with you that a specific aplication rod is custom, as well as a "fancy" butt wrapped rod. It is all what the guy wants. I guess I may be drawing too fine a line, but I'm just one of those "line drawers", I guess!!!

JC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2006 10:45PM by Jim Cunningham.