What size thread for the guide wraps do most people use for bass rods ? Should you get the no color pres. needed thread ? Is National Tackle a good brand of thread ? Just trying to get started.... Thanks for any advice

Jerry,
I use size "A" NCP thread for most of my guide wraps. The reason for using NCP is it allows the finish to "flood" through the thread to the guide foot without using color preserver (cp) making a more uniform and tight finish bond. Using color preserver will not allow the finish to soak through properly. Occasionally, I'll use size "C" double-wrapped on the heavier saltwater rods but 95% of the time I use "A." Just the way I do it. Randy.

Jerry:
I agree with randy. I don't always use NCP thread, but I never use color preserver.
which thread I use depends on the look I am trying to acomplish. Size A is the way to go.

Depends on what look your after, the NCP (no color pres.) thread is more flat looking like flat finish paint. The regular thread has a shine to it before and after you put on the finish. I use white NCP as it's the easiest way to get a true white thread and use NCP in other colors only when I have to like rebuilding an old Fenwick rod or something of that sort.

TITLE: "Gudebrod Thread Table: Strength & Weight of Guide Wraps for Size 2/0 - E" [www.rodbuilding.org] Table of Wrap Strength & Wrap Weight per 1 cm Width of Guide Wrap around a 1 cm circumference section of rod blank (OD = 3.18 mm) for selected popular Styles & Sizes of Gudebrod Rod-Building Thread. ... (Calculated values, not direct "in-situ" measurements. -Cliff Hall+++)

Now for the short version Jerry. Size A would be the most likely choice for most guide wrapping. If you are doing an underwrap on any rod then you might want to use a larger thread on top or seal it with CP and/or finish then use the A again.. CP or no CP is always a big topic but the answer is yes to either choice(diplomatice huh) National thread is a fine thread but slightly larger than the same size Gudebrod. Beware of the florescents, I have had fading problems there. The others have covered the NCP thread issue well. Good luck

REGULAR Nylon Thread will become TRANSLUCENT without using CP first. Without first applying CP, the thread finish will soak into the nylon thread and give it a "WET" look, even after the thread finish ("TF", epoxy or solvent-based) cures. That is an effect which you may or may NOT want to introduce.

Calling CP a "color preserver" has nothing to due with the prevention of the thread's color fading due to sunlight, heat or time. Color "preservation" refers to the ability to "preserve" the thread's "on-the-spool" COLOR and optical reflectiveness or "sparkle". CP infiltrates the thread first, and uses solids (acrylics) to exclude the thread finish (TF).

REGULAR Nylon threads retain their on-the-spool (original) color & sparkle if & only if CP is applied BEFORE the thread finish. Without CP, the color of the underlying rod blank or an underwrap thread may show-thru. If all these colors are black, the presence or absence of CP makes little difference. If any one of these colors is significantly lighter than the other, THAT'S when things can get "complicated". Rod-building CP is about the only way to prevent show-thru in nylon thread from your TF. Some rod-builders use certain brands of polyurethane or varnish with good success as a CP. (SEARCH for details.) Use of NCP thread is the other main way to prevent show-thru without using CP.

NCP ("No Color Preserver") Thread is treated to keep it's on-the-spool color even after the thread finish is applied, even without the prior application of a CP. NCP thread is a treated nylon, and has a "flatter" quality to its color & appearance. It is sometimes described as paint-like. Very opaque. BUT this saves the drying time for CP prior to TF.

METALLIC Threads are totally opaque, and do not need CP prior to TF.

The strength of a guide wrap WITHOUT CP is often reported as ~10% greater than the same guide wrap WITH CP, after the application of TF to both. And applying TF to a guide wrap is often reported as ~10% greater strength than a raw, unfinished guide wrap.

Regarding sunlight fading of the thread colors, the general obseravtion is that a TF which yellows or darkens (like FlexCoat, "FC") blocks out more sunlight and "preserves" the original color of the underlying thread. A clearer TF (like Glass Coat) remains (crystal) clear, but may allow more ultraviolet sunlight bleaching of tht thread color. However, if the rods are not in direct sunlight that many days of the year, this may be a non-issue, and a clearer TF may be (strongly) preferred.

I hope that helps sort out some of the confusion which may have surrounded your initial consideration for how to finish your guide wraps. ... Later, when you do decorative butt wraps, these same principles will apply and will likely have even more significance. Good Luck, Cliff Hall+++

Here's some more general information and a broader discussion of CP, TF and nylon thread, Regular and Non-Color Preserver (NCP). I can still vividly remember how this was a bit of an enigma for me in the beginning, and thought it would help avoid the more common problems or surprises.

If you do use CP, make sure it is dry before you apply your TF. Also, only 1 or 2 coats of CP should (ever) be needed, if you are doing it correctly. Flood / saturate the threads slowly on the first coat. Let dry. Apply a 2nd coat if, in your experience, you find it necessary. Using more coats of CP can cause the TF to not adhere to your threads, or separate after flexing. .

Metallic threads are great when used correctly. Apply tension to the thread with a clutch-plate type tensioner device that presses on the end(s) of the thread spool. If pressure / squeezing is applied directly to the thread itself, as by passing between the pages of a heavy book, then the metallic sheath will crack and be stripped from the nylon core thread, and things will be a MESS: uneven wraps & splotchy color. If CP or TF penetrates the outer sheath thru micro-fissures in the foil, then it will wet the nylon core, and may cause problems. The CP may never properly dry and may cause an uneven color or bubbling. An epoxy TF will cure if it reaches the core under the sheathing, but the color may not be even. A solvent-based, evaporating TF may not dry under the sheath. Bubbling may occur when a 2nd coat of TF is applied. -Cliff Hall+++

Answering your question completely: For bass rods guides use Regular A Nylon thread and No Color Preserver. This thread is commonly called rod wrapping thread. This advice will get you through a lot of rods.

Gon Fishn