I would first like to say that this forum is loaded with great information from what seem like great people. As a rookie to rod building I thought this would be a great place to get a few questions answered.

1. I have few rods I would like to put new guides on. What is the best way to remove the old finish to get to the wraps?

2. I have been doing alot of research trying to determine which blank to use in building my first rod. It will likely be spinning rod 7',fast,med. action, used with 8-10lb line for cast to red drum in the shallows. The Forcast RX6 and RX7 seem to be well liked and reseaonably priced. Is this a good blank for the Money?

3. The rod will be used at the coast (lots of sun). What is a good finish that will not oxidize or yellow?

Thanks for any ideas you might throw my way

1) take a sharp blade to the base of the guide and cut along the top of the guide foot and then just pull the guide out and off. Then peel the thread and finish off with a thumb nail. Check the FAQ and library sections here for more info.

2) The Batson Forecast blanks are great!! money well spent !! IMHO

3) All epoxi finishes will yellow but some remain clearer longer. Opinions vary widely on brands. I like Flex-Coat high build but are trying
some new brands for a change.

Good Luck Jordon and welcome to the club!! LOL LOL If your are successful you will be addicted if you want to or not!! LOL LOL

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Hello Jordan,

Raymond is quite right about epoxy finishes yellowing, although Andy Dear at Lamar Manufacuturing (sponsor at left) has recently developed a new one (Threadmaster) that shows promise of either being non-yellowing or at least very slowly yellowing. You might try it. Perma Gloss from U-40 is a urethane finish which cures by water catalyzation and that yellow. If you don't minde a slight amber tint rod varnish can be used. The varnish is not as hard and doesn't last as long as either epoxy or Perma Gloss, but is a bit easier to apply.

I think that the rainshadow blanks are a good value. You might also want to look at Pac Bay's Tradition or Tradition II series which are similarly priced and of similar quality. Neal Cissal at Neal's Fisning Products and others also sell the Tiger Eye rods which others on this site have complimented. As Ray says, wlecome to the club--it can be a lifelong hobby (or even vocation). Best of luck with your project.

Mike Blomme

Good luck, Jordan. I built my first rod a few months ago, and I'm working on my second, and have repaired a few of my production rods in between. I've run across some of the same things as you, and maybe I can help you avoid some of the mistakes I made.

The first and strongest recommendation I can make for newbies like me and you is to go out and buy Tom Kirkman's book. I can't tell you how many times I've gone back to it. When you first get it, much of the material in it may seem like it's written in Sanskrit, but as you progress, you'll find it makes more and more sense. I think I would have quit this hobby without it.

Regarding the repairs, Ray is right: you should be able to cut into the thread with a dull blade (I use a swiss army knife) and scrape the rest away with a thumbnail. Peel off what you can with your fingernails, and then gently sand the area covered by wrapping thread to get it smooth. I found removing the old guides to be fairly simple the first time I did it.

I suppose that you could upgrade a rod by removing the factory-intalled (and probably cheap) guides, and installing better ones where the old ones were. It's my opinion, though, that if you're going to go to the effort of removing the old guides, you should take a bit of extra time to start over, as though you were building a rod from scratch, and re-figure what guides you should use, what size they are, and where they end up on the blank. If you do this, my bet is that you end up with something that looks a good bit different -- and performs markedly better -- than the rod you started out with. For instructions on how to figure out guide sizing and spacing, refer to Tom's book. When I broke down my first rod, I was tentative about making changes -- I figured that since I was a newbie I should be cautious about doing things "differently" -- and I still ended up with a much different configuration than the manufacturer used, and I noticed an improvement in casting and overall performance immediately.

One thing I learned the hard way: after you strip the rod and move guides around, you'll have to do some refinishing, especially where guides used to be but no longer are. Do NOT use thread epoxy, as I did; use a rod finisher, like Perma Gloss, or ask the guys on this site for recommendations.

Regarding the yellowing of thread epoxy: I'm probably in the minority on this site for feeling this way, and I'll probably be banned as a heretic for suggesting it, but I build rods only for myself, and as a result I don't care a whole lot about aesthetics. For example, 95% of my fishing is from the New Jersey surf, and the first rod I built was an extra-heavy surf bait heaver. For the guides, I used an underwrap of Size A black thread, an overwrap of Size D (black also), used NCP thread, didn't do trim wraps, and didn't use a color preserver. A seasoned rodbuilder would tell you that all of these choices were, from a cosmetic standpoint, bad ones, that the rod would look better if I had done the opposite. But since I didn't care about how it looked -- just how it fished -- I went my way, and I've been thrilled with the results. It may not win a beauty contest, but the rod can fish. And that's the beauty of building a custom rod: you can do what YOU want to do.

For your first rod, if you don't care about the bells-and-whistles of cosmetics, I would recommend using black thread all around for your wraps. If you make a mistake it will disappear when you're done. I made several, on both under- and over-wraps, on mine, and when the epoxy had dried I couldn't notice any of them. And not worrying about every little thing will keep you moving forward, which will help when you reach the "this is never going to be finished" stage. And in using black-on-black, I don't think (though I could be wrong on this) that you'll have to worry a whole lot about yellowing, as I would imagine that any yellowing would be hard to notice against the black wraps underneath.

Good luck. And get ready -- you'll probably get hooked on this, like everyone else on this site.

Chris Garrity

OOPS! - DOUBLE-POST - DELETED by CLIFF HALL+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2006 05:34PM by Cliff Hall.

WARNING: Rod-building, and day-dreaming about it,
can become habit-forming, and may be hazardous to
other relationships. Participant discretion is advised.

Jordan Hughes - There may still be time before the assimilation is complete. Once the mantle of affliliation has been conferred upon you, it's too late. You get used to "belonging", and you'll never be the same.

I think I need to take a hiatus as part of my New Year's resolutions. Where this sabbatical will take me, I don't know. But you're welcome to sit in my seat, ... Actually there is plenty of room for everybody.

In general, RainShadow and Forecast Rod Blanks are perhaps the best quality for the dollar value in rod blanks. Learn how to read the rod blank specifications / ratings in the Manufacturer's Catalogs. This will take time, but calibrate your senses with the rod ratings of whatever is in your arsenal now. Go to well-stocked stores and further calibrate your feel for a rod and its rating. This will help a lot when it comes time to order a rod blank you have never touched before.

Get hard-copies of 2006 Catalogs from at least a couple of Sponsor Suppliers. Get familiar with product lines and general price ranges, etc. A hard copy Catalog is a lot easier to learn from than clicking thru webpages, IMO ("In My Opinion").

Contact Robert Tignor of [www.FISHSTICKS4U.com] with your questions about RainShadow or Forecast Rod Blanks. After these re-build jobs you are doing, when you are ready to do your first new-rod-blank project, Robert can hook you up and get you "stoked" with the Batson blank & components you'll need.

BATSON ENTERPRISES DEALER
RAINSHADOW RODS
FORECAST BOAT RODS
Robert Tignor
rtignor02@comcast.net
Home Office: (804) 746-9711 ...
www.FISHSTICKS4U.com
Owner: Robert TIGNOR
Partner: Captain Ray BROWN
Associate: Kevin P. SMITH

For your own further reading, consider adding these texts to your own at-home Library. ... The RBO Forum is good for quick responses and some detailed questions, ... but it is very limited for communicating graphics, tables and math formulas. ...
Enjoy your own Rod-Trek, Jordan.
-Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****


RESOURCES for GETTING STARTED in ROD-BUILDING

Rod Building Guide, by Tom Kirkman $15
Step by Step instructions for crafting your own custom fishing rod. Building a spinning, casting, surf, fly or offshore rods, Rod Building Guide will explain the how and why in clear, concise text with nearly 100 full color photographs. 51 pages paperback.

THE NEW Advanced Custom Rod Building, by Dale P. Clemens $30
Dale Clemens has completely rewritten this new book (copyright 1978 – 1987). He continues to display his expertise in his discussion of methods for building every kind of rod-from ultra-light fly to surf and offshore trolling. Following detailed explanations and illustrations, rod builders can design, built, and embellish rods to suit their particular desires and needs. Hardcover, 320 pages. [CRTA, 1982]

Step By Step Rod Building, by Flex Coat (FC) $7
Contains over 100 clear illustrations, charts and guide sizing plus step-by-step instructions on all phases of rod constructions. Some topics included are: designing your own custom rod, determining the spine of the rod blank, constructing cork handles, foam handle construction, installing the tip top, wrapping the guides, finishing the wraps and helpful tips for a professional finish. Great for both beginners and experienced rod builders. Softbound, 48 pages.

ROD-MAKER MAGAZINE, bi-monthly, $27 / (6 issues per 12 months).
[www.rodmakermagazine.com]. Order a subscription as soon as you think rod-building is for you. And as far as back issues go, order soon so you won't have to worry about back-issues running out. There simply is no other rod building magazine that can compare for quality and expertise with RMM.

Take a good look around right here at RBO. PLENTY of information at all levels of expertise. Between MudHole's On-Line tutorial and Tom Kirkman's "Rod-Building" book, and the FAQs & LIBRARY & GLOSSARY here at RBO, you have more than enough to get started. And the RBO SEARCH Engine has a database of over 30,000 different Message Threads, totaling more than 175,000 Replies. You are standing in the middle of the world's best repository and forum for rod-building information. All you gotta do is get busy and fill your creel. LOL, Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++

P.S. - If you get hooked on rod-building, RodMaker Magazine, and Dale Clemens' books and videos (like Doc Ski's) will prove very valuable in improving your knowledge of rod-building and your craftsmanship skills. A small price to pay for the return on your investment. ...

If you ever plan on doing any butt wrap work beyond a basic diamond wrap, you will do well to buy a copy of Dale Clemens "Custom Rod Thread Art" (1982) ~$30. It remains THE standard reference for butt wrap techniques & terminology.

WARNING: Rod-building, and day-dreaming about it, can become habit-forming, and may be hazardous to other relationships. Participant discretion is advised.

P.S.S. - Do yourself a favor and go to the MudHole website and request a free copy of their 2006 Catalog. In the front is a 6-page PRIMER, "STEP-by-STEP ROD-BUILDING". It will keep it simple, and has clear illustrations. Order the Flex Coat Booklet "Step-by-Step Rod-Building" as your table-top reference if the MH-Primer is not enough. Tom Kirkman's book is the next level up in general reading. Then Dale Clemens' book "The NEW Advanced Custom Rod Building" is the most comprehensive reference book for general rod-building. Tom Kirkman's RodMaker Magazine is the only other thing that can top Kirkman's own book, or Clemens' book. There are some specialized rod-building books that are tops in their specialty, but this is just an introduction and not a literature review. And there are plenty of new Videos and DVDs to take us where our own rod-building skills have never gone before.

Enjoy your own Rod-Trek. -Cliff Hall+++

Jordon,
You may not have to "sand" the blank and re-finish after you remove the guides from a factory rod. Sanding
is a bad thing to do to a rod blank if you are not very careful!! The wrap finish should come off with a little
elbow grease and a plastic scraper. Plastic will not scratch the blank. Sometimes there can be some staining
on the blank or discoloration under the old guides and that would require extra attention but a lot of times you
can get the guides off and not tell where they were. The library here as a great article on refinishing blanks if
you need to do that.

Chris,
No herecy! Black on black looks great. No trim bands? Thats cool too! G.Loomis uses that pattern and they
still sell a lot of rods! Many builders do not use color preserver at all cause they like that effect. Never think
that a builder would be banned or made an outcast here for being different from the pack!!! On the contrary!

Keep it up both of you and most of all HAVE FUN!!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Chris Garrity : "One thing I learned the hard way: after you strip the rod and move guides around, you'll have to do some refinishing, especially where guides used to be but no longer are. Do NOT use thread epoxy, as I did; use a rod finisher, like Perma Gloss, or ask the guys on this site for recommendations." -CG.

Ray Adams: "The RBO Library here as a great article on refinishing blanks IF you need to do that." -RA.

To Jordan Hughes: DOWNLOAD these RBO LIBRARY articles (for free) before re-working an old rod blank:

(1) LIBRARY: REFINISHING ROD BLANKS by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-2(3).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 2, Issue # 3.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

(2) LIBRARY: SURFACE PREPARATION by Ralph O'Quinn. RMM-5(2).
Originally appeared in RodMaker Magazine, Volume 5, Issue # 2.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Back-issues of RMM can be ordered on-line, for $7 each, at:
[www.rodmakermagazine.com]
or by using the link at left in the List of Sponsors.


Re: gray Scotchbrite paul reyburn Dec. 29, 2005 19:20

Scotch Brite 7446 (Dark Gray) Coarse Grit. SKU#: 7446

Scotch Brite 7447B (Maroon) Medium Grit SKU#: 7447B

Scotch Brite 7448B (Grey) Ultra Fine SKU#: 7448B

Cliff Hall, the seer of sayings, the perpetrator of posts, collector of cliche's, donner of doings, filer of unfileables, finder of facts, organizer of orga... (naw, don't wanna go there), feeler of feelings, shepherd of the sheep, and the garnisher of all garbage (LOL!!).
Have a great day, Cliff!

Putter
Williston, ND

Hiya, Putter - I think you just heaped more crapolades upon me than even I deserve. I don't know whether to gaff you or to gaffaw with you (-at myself-), Randy. I'm choosing to laugh, and to say that your appellations would make some good epitaphs for me !

If I'm gonna go on a sabbatical from RBO, I might as well go in style, right? A farewell mini-tome: over-the-top, "All right already, we get the idea," table-tapping, podium-pounding didactic from "Prophisher Hall", Dredger of all things Archival and Arcane. ...

Well, Putter, that was a good way to show the new guy, Jordan Hughes, (and remind myself) that if it ain't FUN, then what are we doing here...?... !!! -LOL- !!! Be good, ... Adieu, ... -Cliff Hall+++

Enjoy your sabattical, Cliff. Keep in touch if possible, please!

Putter
Williston, ND

One more piece of advice, that I think would have helped me when I started:

Get a bunch of guides, in a bunch of different sizes, that are the cheapest you can find. One of my big fears when I built my first rod was ordering the wrong stuff, or the wrong quantity. I wish I had invested $20 or $30 in a variety of cheap guides. I could have done flex and casting tests with them, and then used the results to order the number and sizes of more expensive guides I thought would work well. You can skip this, of course, but it would have helped me, and if I had known then what I know now, I would have gladly parted with the money.

Thanks for all the info. I have already aquired a hand full of catalogs and Tom Kirkmans book. I plan to get started on my projects some time in the next few weeks when my work load at the office lightens up a little. I'm sure I will have alot more questions to come, and it is good to know that there are people willing to help.

PS. I guess it would be a sin for me not to attend the Rod Builders show since I live in NC.

Thanks to everyone for all the advise.
J. Hughes

you live in NC??? dang. go for me, at LEAST!

eric
fresno, ca.