Hi I am relatively new to rod building, started out just repairing a few old rods I had, and started building with good kits from 2 of the boards sponsors. I built a conventional 6.5 ft boat rod for my son and am in the process of building a conventional reel boat rod for myself using a calstar GF700M. I have learned a lot from this board and I thank all who are members for the wealth of info found here.

So now to my question. I have been reading tons of info about spiral wraps of all types, but I was wondering the pros and cons of spine location on a spriral wrapped rod. I am considering the bumper wrap system , but not sure about the best place for the spine?? Would appreciate all info you guys can give, and thanks in advance.

IT would be too easy to give you a direct answer. Think about where the guides will be placed, what the spiral wrap is designed to do (stability), and figure out where you think the spine should go. There are only 2 possible answers, top or bottom.

I'll put this out there, although a lot of people may disagree - I don't think it will really matter where the spine goes on 50% of teh rods we build spiral. The load a fish will put on the blank combined with teh position of teh guides, will overpower teh spine regardless of where it is located. I do not build many casting rods, so I cannot say how much distance or accuracy would be affected by placing the spine wherever - I would think some.

PS - I'm not saying to just place the spine anywhere, as the first thing your customer will do is flex teh rod and say teh spine is not aligned. I am saying that it probably wouldn't make a difference that it's not aligned.

Hiya, Bob - Are you sitting down ...?... Good, because the shortest version of the answer is: Whatever suits your fancy, that's how you can orient the rod blank. This is a very arbitrary subject, and too much dogmatism should be avoided. ... And every rod blank, even in a single model series, will be slightly unique in its spine & curve.

You can orient the soft plane, or the hard plane, of the rod spine in the same plane as the rod bend when it is loaded.

Or you can orient the natural curve of the rod blank "belly down", in the same plane as the rod bend when it is loaded.

Or you can orient the rod blank spine or curvature (or whatever other feature) by whatever convention you consider significant.

Keep in mind that some blanks have more prominent spines or curves, and that that alone may be the deciding factor in how you prioritize your orientation. ... If you just have a blank with very uniform features, a random orientation may prove just as satisfactory as any other methodology.

The difference between the hard spine and the soft spine is usually not very powerful and hardly ever at 180 degrees opposition. Gaining power for a hook set is one idea, but a rod blank with more backbone to begin with is more effective.

If the rod's curvature makes it look funny, then hiding that aspect would probably trump any spine issues.

Casting accuracy or distance or performance; or minimizing casting fatigue is sometimes mentioned as a consideration. But in significant measurable terms, spine orientation is lot likely to produce any noticeable differences. Some bass-fishing baitcasters seem to like putting the spine at ~ 90 degrees to the guides to help their wrist action.

IMO, one thing that I do notice as a builder is the rod’s tendency to resist bending and any torsional or rolling effect on the rod. That is my general choice, to minimize that effect. For my rods, that usually means putting the soft spine toward the fish when the rod is bent. This seems to produce the least twisting / wringing / torsion in the rod blank; and it seems to minimize the rods tendency to rotate / roll-over when loaded. A spiral wrap (for top-mounted revolving spool reels) much further reduces this rolling effect than spine orientation. For a spinning rod, I also prefer this same orientation (soft spine into the bend, guides down). With the soft side down, then a casual spine check will show the coincidental planarity of the line guides and that particular spine, and my work will show itself to be carefully crafted to the tester, and lend itself to a better review, IMO.

Happy New Year, … -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2005 12:48PM by Cliff Hall.

In any tubular or conical structure there is an N1-N2 plane (soft axis) and a S1-S2 plane (stiff axis). The two planes are almost always close to 90 degrees apart. The N1-N2 and the S1-S2 planes cannot be 180 degrees apart.
When you deflect a blank you are deflecting both sides, the outside under tension and the underside under compression, but if the soft and stiff axis were 180 degrees apart they would tend to neutralize or offset each other.

Emory - could you explain what the N / S designation is? Thx, -Cliff.

Personally, I wouldn't even concern myself with the spine!! Do a search on this site, type in spine and check ALL DATES. You will get more info/opinions on spine that you will want!

Cliff,
If you look at the cross section of a blank the N1-N2 and S1-S2 are just the two planes through the blank. The N1-N2 is a plane that runs from one side to the other (from N1 to N2) through the center or near center of the blank that is less stiff than the S1-S2 plane that also runs through the center or near center of the blank (from S1 to S2). The N and S designations are just the designations that are normally used by mechanical engineers and are found in their texts.
There is a better explanation than mine at a web site for Kaufman Enterprises in the Technical Notes there. It will be referenced to graphite golf club shafts and the spine in them rather than rod blanks but they are very similar and the principles are the same for both. The web site is [csfa.com.] I know John Kaufman and he really knows what he is talking about when it comes to graphite golf club shafts. He makes several devices for measuring the resonant frequency and torque of golf club shafts. If you have any trouble finding the site or with his technical notes send me an e-mail and I will try to help if I can.

The spiral wrap will provide inherent stability regardless of how or where you orient the spine. Truth be told, it just won't matter much where you locate the spine. I would suggest building the straightest axis of the blank, which will usually be along the blank's slight natural curve.

....................

Boy, we just took a simple question,a d made a science project out of it, lol.

WelI....Im glad I got so many responses. I had researched spine in regards to conventional rods, BUT. I started to build this rod and located the spine on top, to locate the guides on top with a conventional reel, in other words I glued the reel seat and grips on. But before I got around to putting the guides on I was thinking about the bumper spiral and was hoping it wasnt too late to change my mind and build the spiralwrap rod. Thanks for all the answers. OH and A Happy New Year to All,

Bob

Bob,
I have been building rods for a while. I just built my first sprial wrap. Just got back from a trip and it worked great. I kept it real simple. Maybe that's why my wife calls me simple minded??? Oh well. Any way there is a lot of the vocabulary I don't understand. I just read what I could get my hands on and built it. It probally should have cured longer but got a big black drum in and lots of big snappers. Not big halibuts but I was impressed with my work. The guys on this site have lots of knowledge and will gladly pass it along. Good luck.


Big John
Rio Hondo, Texas
Blessed are those who can give without remembering and take without forgetting

How does a spiral wrap work with a baitcaster for bass fishing as far as distance and accuracy?will the guide being 90 degress on the blank make the rod cumbersome to cast?

Not at all!!!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..