I'm embarrased to ask this question because both Kirkman's and Clemen's books seem so clear on this issue. Both books seem to indicate that light to medium weight rods with single foot guides don't need to be and shouldn't be underwrapped.

On the other hand, I've talked to 5 different people on the west coast of Florida who make or repair rods for a living. All of these people have told me that I need to underwrap even on a light spinning rod.

My inclination is to not underwrap but I have a lot of respect for these people who have told me the opposite.

I have put off wrapping the guides on my first rod for about two weeks because because I can't make up my mind on this subject.

Can someone help me get off dead center?

Thanks,

Felix

I have built a lot of rods. Mostly saltwater and I almost never underwrap any but the heavy IGFA rods. What reason did they give you for underwrapping? Is that just what they've always done? Do they have some technical reason? I doubt it, really.

If your guide feet have been properly shaped and polished, there is really no need to underwrap the rod. If you find out from these guys something the rest of us don't know I'd love to know about it.

I see no need to underwrap it either, but you know if you feel better doing it then go ahead. It reallly won't hurt anything other than adding just a tad of weight. Overall rod performance might drop off some, but I doubt it will be enough to really harm anything. Do whatever gives you peace of mind.

I agree with everyone here. In my experience, I have never really needed to underwrap anything but the Loomis GLX series.

As stated, if you take your time and properly prepare the guide feet, you shouldn't have any problems.

Marv Schroeder

Felix,

I'm not sure the mindset of the folks you were talking with and I'm sure they speak from experience, but I have dealt with one tackle shop that builds a lot of custom rods and their mindset is that they would rather build a Mack truck and not have any problems with it than build a Lexus. They also don't sell any light/medium spinning rods and kind of frowns upon them. Kind of "one size fits all" mentality.

Judge what you read and hear and see if it will work in your situation. Goodluck.

Felix,

I think you'd NOT want to underwrap on ANY rod unless there was a clear structural or cosmetic reason for doing so.

Weight is an very important factor in how a rod performs, and as far as I can tell, from every reliable source I've found, lighter is ALWAYS better.

For the life of me, I can't see ANY physical reason to underwrap a guide on a spinning rod, regardless of how long/heavy it may be.

Like everyone said, if you prep the guide feet properly so they don't 'damage' the blank itself, where is the need for an underwrap? Ask yourself what purpose does it perform. Does it 'help'? If you can think of how it does, please let me know. Does it hurt? Demonstrably, yes, it will.

Seems pretty clear cut to me, but I only build rods for bass and fly fishing, and I don't use lines over fifty pound test or weights over a couple of ounces.

Good Luck!

Buddy

Underwraps have taken a beating here in the past but I like them. Sure IF you prep your guides right you are unlikely to have a problem but miss a burr and you MIGHT have one.
I like them because they provide a bed to put the guide on that prevents it from touching the blank. I carefully prep my guides too but I like the cushion the underwrap provides. I have built a lot of rods this way and it is said it will change the performance of the blank slightly but I have never been able to see any diference.
The downside is they take a lot more calculation and time to do to get them just right.
They are also a feature you won't see on store bought rods. Is that because the manufacturers so carefully prep their guides they won't ever scratch the blank or because it they are labor intensive?
They are another way to set your custom rod apart from the crowd. They can also provide for some interesting color designs.
You have to consider the time as a cost factor. Are you building a batch of low end rods or the Roll Royce of rods?

Underwraps will always harm rod performance, to some degree. How much really depends on how long you make them. On most rods, they are simply not necessary and provide nothing more than an extra cosmetic touch.

But if you are careful not to go overboard with them, they won't cause you any undue problems. I have a good friend, Buddy Owens, who underwraps all his rods, even fly rods. They look nice and perform well. I know other guys who don't ever underwrap anything, even the big trolling stuff. Their rods hold up and work just fine.

So are they necessary? Not at all. Will they ruin your rod? Certainly not, but you can lose a bit on the performance end if you are not careful.

...................

A couple of points to remember about Florida,there are a number of shops that turn out what for want of a better term mini mass produced rods.
These rods are sold as custom by a majority of the local shops as "Custom" The biggest selling points to these rods are "Yes they are all spined" 2-"Yes all these rods are underwrapped" and they appear quite attractive to the customers. these rods are generally the top end rods sold and as such the customers all receive the same information about what is a good custom rod, often from individuals who know next to nothing about what they are selling.
It has become difficult when dealing with many of these people who have received this info, most feel if you tell them that a rod don't need to be underwrapped that you are pushing inferior rods, everyone knows good custom rods are always underwrapped. Many builders instead of fighting the trend just ask now what color do you want for an underwrap.
As has been mentioned unless dealing with light blanks there is only slightly reduced performance in many cases with heavier rods completley unnoticable.
to answer your question No underwraps are not necessary if the guide foot is prepared correctly and unless you want to buck the trend the underwraps are ok to use.I always try to educate a customer but often find myself doing unnecessary wraps.
John

I wanted to thank everyone both pro and con who took the time and trouble to share their opinions with me.

I'm planning on doing this first one without an underwrap. I think I'll experiment on some scrap blanks with underwraps to understand the differences.

Again, I'm very appreciative as I've been agonizing about this for quite some time.

Felix

Felix, these people you speak of are they Florida Crackers? If so I know many of those people. I grew up watching these old salts building heavy fiberglass and Bamboo rods using Foul Proof and Trumpet guides and underapping them. Their wraps would extent about a 1/2" past the ends of the feet. This is the way they have been built for years and they see no reason to change. I tell them to get a computer and they have all the information they need to make a much better fishing tool, They just look at me and shake their head. I think next time I visit them I will give them a Rodmaker magazine. I'm building a Grouper rod right now for an old Cracker, guess what ? he wants it underwrapped.