I'm a little confused on guide selection... Is there some formula or rule on the strength of single vs. double foot? I see that many are using single footed guides on casting rods and I had planned on it as well, at least in the upper half. But as I thought about it and went to some tackle stores to look at how the high end rods were built, I noticed NO consistency, even in the same brand.

In building heavy worm, jig and flip/pitch rods (fast or mod-fast) how do I determine when double footed guides are needed? I originally thought that all would "need" one or two towards the butt to handle the stresses of big fish/heavy cover. And I figured my heaviest flippin rod might use doubles all the way since it's used with 25 lb line and fished at close range in nasty cover.

How do you determine which is actually required?

Thank you for any input,

Keith Neidhart

You build bass rods. I build stand up tuna rods. So take that into consideration when I say that any rod to be fished with 80# line or less gets single foot guides. For me that means LBSGs which are SIC heavy duty boat guides. I've fought many tuna using 35# of drag with these guides on a spiral wrapped rod without problem. Since a double foot guide dampens the action of the blank more than a single foot guide, why use the double when its just not needed? There. You have my take, I'm sure others will disagree.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Dave

Ditto Dave,
Traditions die hard but I beleive the most double foot guides will eventualy go by the way side. IMO

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

If you're really worried about this issue, take an old scrap of guide, wrap some single foot guides on it (using the Forhan locking wrap), finish it with your finish of choice, then try to bust the guide or pull it out. You'll quickly see that a single foot guide--properly wrapped--is far more strong and secure than it would ever need to be. In my opinion, there is no good reason to use double-foot guides on any bass rod. As Dave pointed out, single foot guides will stand up to Tuna. Why would you worry about single foots and bass? I've not used a double-foot guide in quite awhile on any bass rods, and I've not had any trouble.

Now that being said, if you're building bass rods for a tournament angler who treats his rods roughly, it might be advisable to make the butt guide a double-foot, as that section of the rod seems to be the area that the angler might step on.

Keith,
I think that single footed versus double footed guides is mainly a trade off between durability and performance. The single footed guides are easier to damage but the single footed guides including the wraps and epoxy will weigh less. So on more powerful rods, particularly ones that are short and will not be used to cast I would opt for the more durable double footed guides. On the other hand on longer, lighter, higher modulus rods that will be used to cast I would consider the single footed guides especially toward the tip because the weight has a much larger effect on performance as it is added closer and closer to the tip of the rod.

DAVE - Is there a typographical error in your reference to guides?
Did you mean Fuji "LBSG" or something else, ... because
Fuji LVSG = V-frame (double-leg, single-foot) + SiC-ring
Fuji LRSG = HD-Folded-frame (double-footed) + SiC-ring

BUT Fuji "LBSG" = you tell me, please, ... All I know is the letters "B" and "V" are right next to each other on the vast majority of computer keyboards, and that a typographical error or brain fart is so easy with these FUJI Model Numbers and Style Codes, IMO. And some people seem to use guides I never heard of, so I am just double-checking that I am not missing out on the greatest line guide in the world, or something.

And Dave, I am a bit confused: Are you using 35# of drag on a LRSG HD-boat guide, ... that is to be expected. ... Or are you able to use a LVSG single-foot V-frame for up to say 30# of drag and feel it's safe.

It just seems like a LVSG V-frame single-foot guide would fold under that high a drag load. ... I'm not doubting what you're saying, I just know I am confused about exactly what you are reporting. -Cliff Hall+++

Dave Barrett wrote: "... any rod to be fished with 80# line or less gets single foot guides. For me that means LBSGs which are SIC heavy duty boat guides. I've fought many tuna using 35# of drag with these guides on a spiral wrapped rod without problem." [Which guides: LRSG...?]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2005 11:44AM by Cliff Hall.

Myself, I use double foot guides for the transition in the spiral wrap. Only reason I keep with double foot guides is they hold up better if the rod gets stepped on while it is on the deck of the boat. After that though I use all single foot guides.

If you are concerned about the single ft. guids staying in place. You may want to step up your thread size one letter. Out side of that I would not worry

Cliff...

The LBSG guides referenced are indeed Fuji HD single-footed SIC guides. Cut and paste the following web location to view Mudholes ad for them.

[shop.mudhole.com]

Tom

Thanks for the info, gentlemen! I don't worry about the guides pulling free, especially since trying the forhan locking wrap. I just didn't know if the singles were stout enough to be used in the butt section of these rods... I'm just getting started (trying to learn as much and fast I can) in this and have yet to build a rod. (my first 2 blanks are currently wrapped in Christmas paper!)

Keith,

Whoever bought you the blanks for Christmas will surely regret it. You are about to succumb to an addiction much stronger than even Crack!!! Once you unwrap them. you will be hopelessly lost!!!! Your best bet would be to mail those blanks to me as fast as you can get to the post office and save yourself while you still can!!!!



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Tom KELLY - Thanks for sending us the LINK at MUD-HOLE's website so we could see what a Fuji "LBSG" Tri-Leg, Single-foot, HD-casting Line Guide looks like for ourselves. ... Definitely a STOUT, medium-height frame guide.

-Cliff Hall+++ Merry Christmas,

Cliff...

You're welcome. Fuji also makes a black-framed Hardloy version (BLBLG) in case the SICs are more than you need.

Merry CHRISTmas to you all!
Tom

Well Tom beat me too it. Thank you Tom.

Yes cliff those guides stand up to 35# of drag. In fact I'm building another rod with them that will be used with 100# test, 33# of drag at strike and about 45# at full. It will be interesting to see what happens if I get lucky enough to hook into something that can still take drag when I'm at full!

Lu, I wouldn't step up in thread size. Wraps done with A are far stronger than people think. A long time ago (2-3 years?) I posted the results of some testing I did. I wrapped a Aftco #31HD roller guide onto a scrap blank using only a 1/2" long wrap of A on each foot. I then took my drag scale and pulled until the guide broke free. On average it took 40-42# of pull to do it. Most importantly the reason the guide came free was not due to wrap failure, but because the guide frame buckled. I had planned on a whole series of test with different size thread and with/without epoxy as I want to be sure that my wraps were the strongest they could be. The results of that one test convinced me I needed worry about it. So now the only thread I use is A. My tuna rod guides are wrapped with an under wrap and 2 locking overwraps. Epoxy is applied with each over wrapping.

Dave

Dave Barrett & Tom Kelly - Thanks for the education. ... Now I see the Hardloy-ring "BLBLG", 8mm-16mm ring, Tri-leg, Single-foot Guides, in the hard-copy of the Mud-Hole Catalog 2006, on page 69. ... Very useful info & guide. Thanks, -Cliff Hall+++ Merry Christ-Mass