It appears that Winston Rods is loosing 4 of its best rod builders and my have some of their rods built off shore. This was reported in the Bozeman Daily Chroncle on the 19th
Good Wraps Bob

Winston has been building rods in China for a couple years now. The IBIS models are being joined by two additional lines, also made in China, this year.

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If charging $500-700 for rods does not allow enough profit to retain their best builders and build domestically, that might say something about how they run their business. But, doesn't it seem counter-productive to move offshore for production with a brand that is so status oriented? It seems like they aren't going to be able to command high prices once their rods are made overseas. Oh well, I'm no business major, just thinking out loud.

To clarify, the four bamboo rod builders led by Glenn Brackett left due to disagreements with management on the direction to be taken by the bamboo portion of Winston. This has caused quite a buzz for the last several weeks on the bamboo boards. Some of the graphite rod builders are being trained to replace them, but you can't replace decades of experience with a few months worth. When people buy a Winston bamboo rod, they are expecting more than a stick with guides on it. They are buying some intangibles that represent a continuous progression of handcrafted rods that dates back to the origin of the company.

if people do not know where they are built, they may just pay the same prices. I am sure they woill not tell LOL

This is an interesting thread, so I can't resist putting in my $.02

So many American companies have their products made overseas that is no longer an issue with me. If Winston trains Chinese people to build the rods to Winston's high standards, what is the problem with that? The Chinese workers' lives are certain to improve if they're paid reasonable wages. I just hope that American jobs aren't lost in the process.

The bamboo rodmakers may be perfectly right leaving over the direction management is taking; I hope that they succeed elsewhere. Winston may feel the loss, but again, if their standards are met...

Before we start pointing fingers and taking sides, let me ask you where your blanks are being built?

Jim

i really have no problem with rods of graphite assembled overseas. fly fishing has always had the detriment of the high cost for equipment and without lower priced items now available, i never could have entered the realm of flyfishing. having assembled a few so far, i can see how anyone of any color can be trained to assemble rods well enough. many low and mid level rods may be assembled on an assembly line as it is.

but the recent developments with the "boo boys" over at winston i find a bit different than production of the IBIS and newer Vapor rods winston is selling. the bamboo developments sounds like it was a slap in the face of tradition and craftsmanship by management, something winston claims it adheres to strongly particularly in their advertising campaigns. to me, who has little experience compared to many others here and around it's much different to assemble a graphite rod, even with custom placement of guides, compared to making a fine bamboo rod commanding thousands of dollars with a reputation of its main maker approaching legendary status. they are winston bamboo rods, but even more so, i find that the bamboo rods offered by winston are personified by the main maker at the small shop. hence, brackett era-rods. similar perspective at orvis and the leonard rod company, and others over the years.

it's easy to see this as a case of "nothing personal, strictly business" after all they're just fly rods but conversely with the bamboo community it's also easy to see how this is a very personal issue.

it's an interesting development over at the winston bamboo shop, something not so rare these days really. i wonder how the chips will fall for winston and the guys who made the bamboo rods.

eric
fresno, ca.

I don't fly fish. Period. I have never heard of Winston rods. But I have no doubt that the men in question loved building bamboo fly rods. They took pride in their work, and their status as craftsmen. They left for a reason. If I were a flyfisherman, I would stop buying Winston fly rods. Sounds like they lost their heart and soul. I build my own rods, cause I can make something with me in it, It's hard to buy a rod now, if I think someone is making it on an assembly line, thinking only about the last bell. Levi

Hi Jim: I live less than 2hrs from Lamiglas. I can watch my high end blank being built by high qualified personnel. (Not to say some of their low end rods are made over seas. There are some good blanks made over seas. Did you read the article that was printed in the Bozeman Daily Chronicle? You are looking at a 100-yrs worth of experience leaving a company, which charges’ thousands and up for their rods. Have you seen a blank made from its conception? It takes lots of experience to roll a blank. I have never seen a Bamboo rod made from raw material, I have just read books. An what I have read and the pictures I have seen, it takes lots of knowledge to build one. What I see with Winstone with the loss of these highly quilified people leaving Is a loss and love of a craft that can not be replaced by a newbie. Can you think of working on a single rod for a year before it is completed? I do not think you well find that kind of didacation over seas. The new owners are not involved in the rod building process at all, from what the article said.
Good Wraps Bob

[bozemandailychronicle.com]

Very good artical!!

The loss of skilled and talented craftsman is a problem but life is dynamic and the potential for change is always present. Some change is hard to accept but if you do accept it and make the best of it you are usually rewarded. Others can potentially develop those same skills and excel at them.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

They will only be lost to Winston and probably go to work for themselves or someone else who values their experience. And, as you say, it opens the door for some ambitious rodmakers to step up and make reputations for themselves. Stan, do you have your application in yet? Do you think they'd let me telecommute from Maryland, LOL? If they did, it would later be referrred to as the "Kartalia era, marked by the introduction of Fuji seats and ceramic guides to the bamboo rods". Demand would plummet like a pelican into a puddle.

IMO- losing heritage and history are as important as losing the rods to production overseas. The high prices these rods demand are in relation to the skill of the craftsmen who build them. I would not expect to charge anyone those prices unless they were buying the skill and the knowledge of those craftsmen in there unique finished product. I do not believe that this decades worth of skill can be replaced in China in a couple months and be up to snuff with the usual fine craftmenship that those who use this product are use to.

Interesting debate with all sides! Good article and thread.

EDIT: not trying to get off topic just a response to a earlier post about China manuf.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2005 05:43PM by Jason Pritchard.

You guys are getting a little off course! If you read the article (and you should) no one is talking about moving the bamboo operation to China or anywhere else. They are promoting/training graphite builders to Bamboo (i'm in no way sticking up for them but hopefully they will work it all out. Will their quality suffer? Perhaps, bit the marketplace will determine that and life will go on!) Keep in mind that these legendary builders have been doing this for decades and new "legends" will eventually have to take all "Legends" places.

.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

i get the feeling winston will be just fine. the hardcore bamboo people will care and will turn elsewhere (the craftsmen will sign on with another company ior hang their own shingle and people who care will seek them out), but there are a LOT of people who probably simply want a "winston bamboo rod" with that name on it. same taper, maybe lacking in the craftsmanship of the former rods but good enough, whipping out the credit card on a whim.

eric
fresno, ca.

Like most of you stated, the craftsmen will probably open their own shop somewhere. I believe there is more to the story than was printed. Look at Powell rods. Generations of the Powell rods were lost when a party who knew nothing about rods bought the company. Now where is that company today? For the price Winston gets for its product why must they have to go over seas? What it comes down too, is a bigger profit Look at the big three auto manufactures. Their cars maybe assembled here but their parts come from over seas. I put Bamboo rods in a category like custom cars. It takes years of training to develop the perfect custom hot rod. You have to have fabrication knowledge with metals fiberglass, resins and paints to make the perfect car, this does not come overnight. Years ago it took years of working as an apprentice before you became a journeyman
Good Wraps Bob