Do you use anything to protect the blank from a guide's foot rubbing on it, if you don't underwrap? It seems to me that even if you smooth out the bottom of the foot there will still be some damage to the blank as the finished rod is used, since it's still metal on graphite.

I like the idea of underwraps but want to use titanium framed guides... the extra weight of finished underwraps, in my mind will negate any advantage of the extra light guides.

What do you guys think? Can I use something like Sof-tex or a rubberized paint to coat the underside of my guide feet?

Thanks for any insight,

-Keith

There is no need to do anything like that. The guide will not hurt the blank provided there are no sharp edges of burrs protruding into the blank and the guide sits nice and flat on the blank. Thread tension should be snug, not tight. After wrapping, you should be able to nudge the guides into alignment with moderate pressure.

For more information on guide prep, see RodMaker volume 8 #1.

.............

Tom,

Thanks for the info! I do consider it a priviledge to get advice from the man who "wrote the book" on rod-building! (how many times have you heard that before?) The back issue web page is down at the moment but i'll find it tonight and try to order.

Best regards,

-Keith

FYI: Calculated WEIGHTS for Guide Wraps can be found at: [www.rodbuilding.org] -Cliff Hall+++, Gainesville, FL-USA*****

TITLE: "Gudebrod Thread Table: Strength & Weight of Guide Wraps for Size 2/0 - E" ... For general reference, a Table of Calculated Strengths and Weights of UNFINISHED Gudebrod Thread Wraps for Sizes 2/0-E, for Silk, Regular Nylon, NCP and HT Metallics, assuming a thread wrap bandwidth of 1 cm, around a rod blank of circumference of 1 cm (OD = 1/Pi = 3.18 mm), is available at: [http://www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/759/cat/506/page/1
KEYWORDS: GUDEBROD; THREAD; Strength; Weight

Note that EACH 1cm wide band of UN-finished thread wrap around a rod blank of OD = 3.18mm (1/Pi) weighs about 20mg (Size-A), 25mg (Size-C or -D), and 35mg (Size E or HT-D).

It is difficult to estimate the weight of the rod blank in the immediate proximity of the guide being wrapped, because of the wide variety of rod blanks on which you may wrap these smaller running guides. But it is relevant to note that EACH 1cm wide band of UN-finished thread wrap around a rod OD = 3.18mm (1/Pi) is approximately 5-10% of the weight of a typical (not Titanium) single-foot guide (Fuji) that you may select for the job. Fuji xLxG-6MM-J = ~ 200mg; and xLxG-8MM-J = ~ 400mg.

Since the resonance frequency (RF) of the rod blank is inversely proportional to the square root of the total mass of the vibrating body (rod + guide + thread + epoxy), it takes a large increase in mass to effect a significant decrease in RF. But since an underwrap esentially doubles the contribution of the weight of thread to the total mass, this may be the case of the cumulative effects of saving weight on all aspects or components making a realistic improvement overall, rather than having too narrower or myopic a view of the situation.

I hope this systems-analysis approach lends some additional rationale to why saving weight may be important in your applications. It can also be used to help decide or predict if the total number of guides or their style may have an appreciable effect on rod "feel" or performance. One problem with guide mock-up is sometimes the weight of the rubberbands or tape is greater than the mass of the finished thread wrap, and that may exaggerate the weight of the guide selection and layout you are considering. -Cliff Hall+++

Keith - Your e-ddress is "Hidden". I can provide you with a copy of a *.DOC or *.PDF file that further discusses this RF and mass effect if you contact me directly.
Cliff Hall: cmkmhall@ufl.edu

Fuji Single-foot FLY guides: xxAG = Alconite. xxSG = Silicon Carbide
BLAG-6J - 0.19g
CLAG-6J - 0.20g
LSG-6J - 0.17g

BLAG-8J - 0.37g
CLAG-8J - 0.38g
LSG-8J - 0.34g

Fuji Guide Weights above courtesy of:
Alexander Chunikhin <[email protected]>

Your blank will take much more abuse in and out of your rod locker than the guidefoot will ever will. LOL Like Tom said, why add weight when it's not necessary. Having said that, guide feet prep is important though. The blank does flex under those feet. A sharp bur will weaken the blank over time.

"...IMO, an underwrap can improve the fit of the curvature of the underside of the guide foot to the rod blank’s radius; provide a cushion under the foot to protect the blank; and increase sliding friction; and damp any rocking fulcrum. IMO, -CMH. "
Re: how tight should wraps be Cliff Hall Nov. 16, 2005 11:31
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Two other Links to related discussions are:

Re: To double wrap or not CLIFF HALL 11-11-05 00:53
[www.rodbuilding.org]
I realize this may seem like a confusing distinction between two different restrictive forces: a FRICTIONAL force that prevents the guide from SLIDING around on the rod blank; verses a TETHERING force that prevents the guide from RIPPING away from the rod blank.

Thread Tension Measuring Device ?? Ken Driedger 09-07-04 12:25
[www.rodbuilding.org]
In this day and age of digi this and digi that, is there a simple inexpensive measuring device that measures relative thread pressure/tension/around a cylinder, such as a rod blank, …?