I've been lurking and studying here. I'll soon be building a 12 foot surf rod for long range roosterfish plugging with a spinning reel and 50 lb. Powerpro. I've been reading everything I can find about Fuji surf guides (LC series) and the new concept spacing. Tom K. recommends using a first guide that is one half the diameter of the reel spool which would be a 30mm ring in my case. The largest LC guide available is a 20mm.

Should I not use the LC series and go to the MN series (starting with a 30mm). Or, will starting with a 20mm LC and placing it an extended distance down the rod (as recommended by Fuji) be fine?

the LC Guides use a different spacing system the striper is way up the blank go to Anglers resorces on left

Hi Todd. This past spring I built a surf rod using a 2 piece 10 foot Lami for pompano fishing in the Gulf. I used the LC guides and have been very pleased. I was not able to place the first guide where Fuji recommended because of it being 2 pieces, so I'm sure I'm not getting quite the performance I should, but it really works well for me. I use a Penn 706 with PowerPro and it casts a loooong way. Good Luck.

I have not built a rod with the LC's, but I 've seen two in use this summer with braid. They were on long 12' + rods and the owners swore by the set up. "Listening " to them cast, the line sounded like it was running clean with no line slap.Having a size 20 gathering guide just takes some getting used too I suppose. I will add that its because of this LC system , just the word "concept", and the use of braid, that any surf rod I now build(8-10ft) , I test cast with various set ups, using a #25 MNSG style guide as a gathering guide. Works great and dramatically lightens up a surfrod...IMHO.

I'm not a surf caster -- but if this is a spin rod -- why not just use single foot spin guides with a forhan wrap ??? Why are ya using casting guides ??

Single foots tangle & bend. The LC's are IMPOSSIBLE to tangle, and are more than beefy enough to handle getting banged around. I personally do not like the length of the LC guides, (keep in mind I built only 1 rod with these for someone else) - so I used the LC's for the first couple of guides, then switched to MN's for the guides on the tip. If I were to use the LC's again, more than likely I would only use the stripper due to teh hieght, and use all teh rest MN's.

So your saying that single foot guides will tangle and bend on " any " spin rod ???

So the concept system goes out the window cause it is a surf rod ???
It's already top heavy before the guides go on - then putting on cast guides is lighter then single foot's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2005 10:02AM by bill boettcher.

I'll take a shot at this. Surf rods are subject to forces that make single foot guides undesireable. It is not unusual that they are subject to falls by the user and they are sometimes dropped or layed down in harms way. Also, with usual 9 - 12 foot lengths, heavy weights, and power casting the stresses on all components are considerable. Large powerful fish are frequently sought and the battle can be extreme. For all these reasons the security and strength of a 2 footed guides are wise.

In regards to line wrapping around the guides. This is fairly unique to powercasts with long rods and spectra line both of which are common in surf casting. It is greatly magnified when casting a leader attached with a knot through the guides. I have seen that single foot guides are sometimes used in surf casting distance competitions but this is only in controlled situations.

OK, I take it is not even good to use the smaller single foot guides as running guides either ???
Then if you talk abot stress on a guide, why do people use single foot guides on conventional cast rods and on top ?? There they get the most stress of all types of rods ??

Sounds like the thing about snake guides on fly rods I dont want to break chops here but I am just using my common cense here.

I use a braid line on my trout rods and " with a mono leader " get way less " pig tails " then with mono which holds the pig tails and has to be changed or streightened often.
Using a braid line the line will be streighter and tangle less.

I think it's a velocity thing. The velocities generated by up to 8 ounce weights launched by very long powerful rods are unique. Lines wraps are more likely due to velocity and if this happens the forces can tear a guide off the rod. The Fuji website can explain all this to you in more detail.

bill boettcher Wrote:
> Sounds like the thing about snake guides on fly
> rods I dont want to break chops here but I am
> just using my common cense here.

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not a surf caster --

Enough said on that. I'm not a surf caster either, but all you have to do is speak to a few who actually fish hard, look at their rods, and watch how they cast to see why single foot guides are not common at all in this circle. Todd obviously fishes the surf, as he seemed to cover all teh bases, re-read what he wrote and it is very clear why on a SURF ROD 1 footers are not used, and that NOBODY here cares about a Trout rod, lol.

When you build a rod, is the weight the ONLY thing you take into consideration? Maybe on little bitty rods it makes a difference, but for surf rods they have to cast well, and not fall apart during use so the components need to be up to the challenges fishing on slippery rocks, using the butt as a walking stick on slippery rocks, sticking teh butt inbetween rocks while you change plugs, and in some cases - wearing a wetsuit, swimming a few hundred yards off the beach to a single rock in teh middle of teh night, to catch 30-50# Striped Bass - which sometimes drag teh fishermen off teh rock and under water. Skishing is nuts, lol. Besides, a lot of surf rods use large reels with a few hundred yards of braided line on them, which will balance fairly well even with teh evil double footed LC guides, as well as with size 70 Perfection wire guides, lol.

bill boettcher Wrote:
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>So your saying that single foot guides will tangle and bend on " any " spin rod ???
>So the concept system goes out the window cause it is a surf rod ???
>It's already top heavy before the guides go on - then putting on cast guides is lighter then single foot's.

We are NOT talking about ANY rod here. You have no idea about the LC system, and apparantly not the Concept system, which is why you made a statement such as "out the window". It's basically the same thing, read teh Angler's Resource site, or teh 10 posts in the archives here about LOW RIDERs. The Concept system doesn't robotically say use single foot fly guides for every single rod you're ever going to build, it says use teh smallest guides you can get away with using. In this case & several otehrs that means NOT using single foot guides. I'd love to see an 80# rod built for a BFT spinning rod with size 6 single footers on tehre. I know they will hold up on fish, but the chance of something going wrong on a 200# fish isn't worth using them. Pick the right components for each application.

The reason I had asked was that I had asked a while back if single foot guides with a security wrap were stronger then double foot guides. Never really got a clear answer.
So now reading this I would say that double foot guides are stronger.

Thanks You just answered two questions.

....and I'm not a trout fisherman! lol.(got bait?) You need to use the right components that suit your application in the surf ( at least in the Northeast you do. I've built surfrods with single foots and they hold up just fine if you're fishing sandy areas with plugs , even without the Forham locking wrap.(I'd still recommend a double foot gathering guide, as that guide can take some abuse from line coiling off a reel at high speed). Heavier Surfrods need a more stout guide based on abuse alone.
Picture this...go surf fishing the Maine coast, the various Jettys and outcroppings further south, fish the Cape Cod Canal, or the Rhode Island Breachways... fish Montauk, do it all at night, maybe a rainy night, and try not to slip on the rocks while pulling a 25 pounder out of the suds, while your hands are covered will eel slime!!! Fishing from the Surf can be a different animal altogether for some. You either build a workhorse, or tone things down based on the conditions and what you're fishing with.....(9" sluggos, 19"eels...1oz.jigs or plugs...or 4 oz + of lead and a bunker head...or many other "variatals")...anything I say is based on my experience.

I do build with single foots...awesomely light rods that have a time and a place in mind....but for alot of situations in the surf around here ...go double foot. The extra leg doesn't weigh too much...and you can lay down a cool underwrap!!!

I can see the first several or even half dozen guides being double foot but for weight on the tip.
( and I am not saying #6's ). Butt heck a 14 ft rod is already tip heavy.
The first guides streighten out the line then it should be running streight.
A long rod like that I would think ya would want to get rid of weight any way ya can to make it easy to handle in the surf.

But i see that since the ruff treatment the double foot should be used.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2005 06:57AM by bill boettcher.

Most of my surf rods built for plugging start with double foot, then single and sometimes end with a fly guide. Less weight and resistance at the tip improves casting. The rods do hold up to fish, but not all fisherman. How do you transport and store your rods? This question should be asked before making the final guide decision. The best built and designed rod won't make the builder or fisherman happy when it's in for repairs.

That is what I have been told is that the single foot do get bent up. I was just wondering why they are not used more and now I know for the future use.

Thanks