Hello all,

I recently purchased a few Ex-Fast action Hot Shot blanks for salmon and steelhead. The first one broke on a 10lb silver. The rod was high sticked, but I have never had one break in this particular situation before.

I know that faster action blanks are more prone to breakage from high sticking and I have since learned that this particular brand may be even more easily damaged from high sticking.

Since I have more of these blanks to build up, I would like to know if there is any way to help prevent breakage from high sticking. Obviously, don't high stick the rod is the best answer, but what, if anything, can a rod builder do to help?

I was thinking:
1) Space the guides closer in the area prone to breaking. On these rods it is in the 10" to 20" from the tip range.
2) Single foot guides to shorten the "dead" area a longer guide may create. I prefer single foot guides but these rods are heavy enough that I would usually use a size 7double foot guide.
3) They are casting rods, so would a spiral wrap be better, worse or the same with regard to high sticking?
4) Any other advice?

I searched the forum for ideas but didn't find what I was after. I have built a few rods and believe I have a good procedure for spacing guides but I am sure there is room for improvement.

Thank You
FB

One of my first questions would be why do you need to high stick the rod. You do not have the rod in the best postion for putting pressure on the fish when the rod is so high up.

Definitely use more guides that normal if you know the rods will be badly "high sticked." Although this will help, it will not totally prevent breakage when a rod is used in such a manner. A little customer education might also be in order, but I'm well aware that a lot of that goes out the window when a guy hooks into a good fish. Good fish fighting technique has to be a matter of habit and many fishermen have really, really, really bad fish fighting habits.

.............

OK,

I knew most people would question this and say don't high stick. I was there when this rod was "high sticked". It happens to all of us to some extent. Some people have much better "fish fighting habits" than others.

This happened when trying to bring the fish to the net. We were using long leaders which doesn't help. The fisherman simply got anxious to see the fish hit the net and tried to bring it within netting range a bit too aggressively. Is it the anglers fault? Absolutely. Would a slight change in guide spacing have saved this particular blank? Maybe.

Bringing salmon to the net when using divers and long leaders can be difficult. Not high sticking the rod while bringing them to the net can be even more difficult. High sticking also occurs when a fish runs at you and under the boat. The rod is not actually held high but the fish is behind the fisherman and creates a severe angle to the blank. The only way to not put too much pressure on the tip of the rod is to stick the rod in the water, which is exactly what you should do but many people are too slow at doing this and put extra pressure in the tip of the rod.

The rods I am talking about will be for my boat. I know not to high stick, but not everyone I take with me fishes a lot. Education helps but if a change in the way the rod is built will help than I would like to do that also. These blanks are easily damaged by high sticking so why not build them in a way to try and prevent it. If one more guide in the 10" to 20" range helps then why not try it. The extra weight will not be a problem on a rod rated to 25 or 30lbs.

FB

High Sticking is a neccesary evil for Party Boat fishing. Anytime you are fishing structure and swing, the rod to teh 12 or 1:00 position (behind your head, my friend gets his rod all the way to 3:00) there is a reason. Fishing Mono you need to take all teh stretch out, while at teh same time rip the fish up off the bottom so it cannot hang you in teh wreck, reef or rocks. Also swinging fish up over teh rail results in a ton of high sticking.

My PB rods are all high sticked to a degree before I use them. i put more guides towards teh tip to "cushion" the blank and prevent a sharp spot in teh blank. YOu are not going to be able to prevent every single high sticked rod from breaking, but you sure can minimize teh breakage by expecting it and adjusting your components selection to suit.

What exactly is high sticking - holding the rod straight up and creating a near 180 bend while trying to land a fish close to yourself?

Lifting the rod to where the line is almost parallel to the blank.

To me, anything over 90 degrees is high sticking.

Putter
Williston, ND

I'm with Putter. Putting the rod butt at 90 degrees or more to the fish is high sticking. IMO. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

thats five minutes in the penalty box ya know............. lol................

Some manufacturers rate their blanks at 45 degrees. What this means is that at 45 degrees the line, at the max. line rating on the blank, should break before the rod does but at an angle of higher than 45 degrees relative to the ground or water the rod may break before the line does. As this angle gets higher and higher the amount of load that the rod will tolerate drops because the stress on the rod is distributed over a shorter and shorter section of the rod and on the section of the rod that is less and less strong.

As far as extra guides are concerned, the amount of stress on the rod will drop as extra guides are added. Reducing the distance between guides by say 20% will reduce the stress by approximately 20%. So Franks thinking about adding a couple of extra guides is right on target. The extra weight of each guide will naturally drop the effiency of the rod in the ball park of 5% to 10% on most rods but if the rod is not being used to cast with this should not be a serious problem.

If you look closely at most Hot Shot blanks they do not flex much, the strain is low, in the first few inches from the tip. The flex is mostly from 6 or 8 inches from the tip to 18 to 24 inches from the tip. This argues to add the extra guides starting back a few inches from the tip, not starting at the first guide.

Berkley used to put a little book with there spinning rods that said, "No Ninety" on it and talked about not putting the road butt more than 90 degrees to the line. So what did it do? Got hung up on a rock and decided to test the books correctness with some 20 lbs braided line(way more than the rod was rated for). I buried the rod butt on my hip and leaned back hard on it. It flexed and had no issues other than a little cracking noise..LOL. The next trip got a big fish on and leaned into it a little and snap, the thing just fell apart. Huh...those Berkley people were right, "No Ninety!" I still have that rod broken to bits! Some people learn the hard way.

Thanks for the helpful comments.

Emory, your description is exactly what I was thinking. Closer spacing in the 10" to 20" range (or 6" to 24" as you suggested) may help save a rod. I'll use single foot guides to overcome the added weight of the extra guides.

FB

Frank,
That makes sense to me. When you place the guides you might want to keep in mind that the max. stress on the rod will be between the guides in the area where the max. deflection or strain is. Good luck.