Should we be concerned about the possible risk of avian flu when handling exotic bird feathers for inlays?

I'm not sure. I guess it depends on (IF they know this yet...) how long this bug lives (stays infectious) away from the host on it's own. Hepatitis B can live (stay infectious) nearly a week on it's own but most other bloodbornes are dead (no longer infectious) nearly instantly. I'm not sure; this is a good point.

Putter
Williston, ND



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2005 03:59PM by Randy Parpart (Putter).

Any VIROLOGISTS, MDs or EPIDEMIOLOGISTS here at RBO ?

Feather Inlays was one vector they / we / I hadn't planned on !! ... I'm beginning to worry about all the Chinese Buffet restaurants in this college town. Will the next fortune cookie say, "He who lays my feathers will lay flat. From Charlie & Polly the Parrot"

Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++

Oh for goodness sakes....

This past week, in conversation with my neighbor who is an avid hunter, I mentioned that next the hunters were going to worry because of the use of "feathers" on arrows. We both chuckled since we both know that most fletching is synthetic in nature. I forgot al about feather inlays..........

Roll ahead three days to Satarday ..... an angler I am making some ultra-light rods for dropped by to see the progress on the rods. He's a biochemist and works in the medical field. I just happened to mention the flu to him because I had been sick for the last eight days from after effects of the flu shot (innoculation). He offered word of encouragement and wishes for better health. I said to him that I am happy that it is just a touch of induced flu and not that dreaded brid flu. He then continued to say that there is a particular culinary habit common to those areas of asia that is suspected responsible for causing 100% of the cases of bird flu - eating a raw bird product call TIET CANH. That unless I am dining on such culinary pleasures not to worry about it at this point..........

I looked it up. all I can say is YUUUCCCKKK!!!

See this article: [news.bbc.co.uk]

So unless you're eating the same dish I believe you have nothing to worry about. It would still be a good idea to wash and wax you hands after handling any bird parts.

Lou

Some info I've gathered on this so far; it doesn't totally rule out feathers of course, but does kind of point away:

Professor Hugh Pennington of Aberdeen University underlined the negligible risk to consumers: "The virus is carried in the chicken's gut.
"A person would have to dry out the chicken meat and would have to sniff the carcass to be at any risk. But even then, it would be very hard to become infected."
Experts say avian flu is not a food-borne virus, so eating chicken is safe.
The only people thought to be at risk are those involved in the slaughter and preparation of meat that may be infected.
However, the World Health Organization recommends, to be absolutely safe all meat should be cooked to a temperature of at least 70C. Eggs should also be thoroughly cooked.


Putter
Williston, ND

You rang?? I am both an epidemiologist and a virologist. I would preface the following by stating that it re[resents my opinion and not necessarily that of my employer.

To the best of my knowledge, the largest outbreaks have involved poultry workers and there are no reports of cases of avian influenza reported among fly tyers or rod builders. CDC's website (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/avian-flu-humans.htm) lists the clusters in humans since 1997. Infected birds and humans have been found in the U.S., Canada and the Netherlands in addition to China and southeast Asia.

Influenza is an enveloped virus (it has an outer coat of lipid (e.g. fat)) and is rapidly inactivated (since we don't consider viruses to be alive - they cannot really be killed) by things that break down fat - detergents and alcohols. Viruses only multiply in living cells (not on/in feathers) and tend to lose their infectivity over time. A number of factors determine how many will be present after a given period of time - things like starting amount, temperature, surrounding substrate, humidity, sunlight, etc.

I've not done feather inlays but I do tie flies and am not too concerned about getting avian influenza from those sorts of exposures as the risk is extremely low. If you are concerned, washing new batches of feathers in warm water with dish detergent or a quick dip in ethanol or isopropyl should provide some protection. It is also probably not a good idea to stick feathers in your mouth regardless of bird flu. Although I've done it, I just got to thinking about where I've seen maribous on chickens and probably won't do it again.

I would add that right now, immunizations are available for the strains of flu most likely to be circulating this winter. If you get your flu shot, wear your seatbelt, eat in moderation, get 30+ min of physical activity each day, moderate your alcohol content, don't smoke tobacco and either maintain a mutually monogamous relationship or use condoms - you have covered most of the bases and if you should get bird flu from a feather inlay - you are one unlucky rascal.

-ralph cordell

Also check out:
[www.birdersworld.com]
There is some good information on the avian flu here.

Ralph Cordell - Thanks for your professional Public Service Announcement. And the sense of context and good humour you provided. And especially for discussing the nature of the viral coat, and its susceptibility to the ordinary precautions for healthy personal hygiene: Handwashing with soap, and cleaning with soap or alcohol any material you intend to handle or store. ... I will now be able to enjoy my customary trip to the local Chinese buffet without fear, since raw bird blood & liver pudding is NOT anywhere on their menu.

"Hung still does not know how they both contracted H5N1, the often deadly virus that causes the respiratory illness bid flu. ... "I guess we both got it from the last meal we shared together," Hung said. "I'd just got back to Thai Binh, where I'm originally from, to visit my brothers. They threw a welcoming dinner where we had our favourite dish, 'TIET CANH', which is made with chopped congealed RAW DUCK BLOOD and herbs. ... "The duck was plump and looking healthy, so we didn't have the slightest suspicion that it might be sick." from [news.bbc.co.uk] ... Thanks, Lou Reyna. This story wouldn't be the same without that detail. (Hence the Mosaic prohibition against drinking / cooking with animal blood.)

Ralph, it sounds like it takes a large dose of virus to effectively transmit and infect a human vector. Is that correct?

Do ordinary cooking temperatures ~ 140+ degrees Fahrenheit destroy the viral coat and thereby inactivate the virus to a smear of harmless lipids and denatured proteins (enzymes) ?

Is there any knowledge of a PRION (proteinaceous infectious material) component to this H5N1 Asian Bird Flu that we know of ?

Thanks, Ralph Cordell.
Cliff Hall (4th year PharmD student)

Putter - Thanks for relaying your findings. Good job, "Doc Marble". ... I'll quit all my voodoo chicken sacrifices and innards divinations effective immediately. LOL!!! Cliff Hall+++

Scott Redmond - thanks for passing along this link [birdersworld.com] and its information. -Cliff Hall+++

@#$%&, just stay away from the chicken feather inlays.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

Thanks to everyone for their insightful opinions. Cliff, I guess the chicken bowls from the Maui Teriyaki are still safe.

Warren - Hey Gator ! - Had a Maui Teriyaki chicken bowl on Saturday before the Game. I'm still standing. Give me a holler some time. Are you in GOFC? Your e-ddress is Hidden.
-Cliff Hall+++ cmkmhall@ufl.edu .

He Ralph thanks for the info. I felt like I was back in the Corps School learning about vector control. Nice to see someone who can take a complicated subject and and present it so a common smuck like me can understand it. That is impressive to me. I have decided to close my other business which is liposuction for chickens.lol

Not worried a lot about the avian flu anyway, I drive in LA. Now that is something to worry about.