Those of you who have been keeping up with the seminar list for the National Rod Building show, probably are aware that Bill Stevens will be doing the flocking demo in Charlotte in the upcoming event. Bill watched me do it last year and left with a fascination that has compelled him to do quite a bit of work on the do-it-yourself flocking process. He was the obvious choice in a flocking presenter for this year's event.

In some emails Bill has sent recently, he's mentioned that others who have been trying flocking are not getting the hoped for results. I get similar emails from people experiencing such problems on a daily basis. And these include problems not only with flocking, but spiral wrapping, etching, feather inlays, rod balancing, and a host of other technique specific topics. One of the standard answers often given when I ask if the person has read the instructions in the related article is - "I don't take RodMaker," or "I didn't read the article," or "I got the info off an internet message board." Bingo. The problem immediately becomes apparent and it’s pretty frustrating to say the least.

Granted, I started this website for those people who don’t take RodMaker. I've always wanted to see rod building information shared by everyone, not just those who choose to subscribe to a magazine. But, there is a terrible fallacy making the rounds these days, and it is that you can get the same amount, type and quality of information off the internet that you can from a technical publication. Well, you can't. At least not where these rod buildings topics are involved.

I don't think you'll find a single rod building website that employs people to research rod building topics or create new techniques or ideas. All of them, this one included, serve as "after the fact" information repositories. They excel at offering quick answers to pressing questions, but they will never be able to offer the kind of researched and detailed information that the magazine does. Nor are any of them going to break the new ground that the magazine does. In fact, much of the information and ideas that get discussed on these rod building sites, originated with the magazine and has trickled down to the web. Unfortunately, the trickled down version will always be somewhat less than the original content - and therein lies one of the main problems faced by so many. So yes, these various sites are helpful and fill a need among the craft, but they don’t and can’t fill the same need that the magazine does. Two different mediums, two different purposes.

I don’t say any of this in order to disparage any of the rod building websites, nor to cajole anyone into buying RodMaker. Only to remind you, that you have to use the proper tool for the job. Internet message boards are not designed to fully teach new techniques and methods - they exist as a means of quick communication for pressing problems or queries. If you’re starting from scratch and want to learn a particular technique that you’re not familiar with, the magazine is your single best source of information (and there is very little in the world of modern rod building that it hasn’t covered or originated). I know many don’t want to spend the few dollars it costs, but it may be false economy to do without it and rely solely on these message boards compared to the waste in time and materials when your project failed because you didn’t avail yourself of the best and most complete information possible. Just some things to think about. This hits me every day when I answer email related to such problems and someone then tells me that they’ve never read the article in question.

At any rate, Bill will be in Charlotte to show you not only how to flock grips, but how to get great results every time out. If you plan to attend, you won’t want to miss his presentation.


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The internet rod building sites offer some great information. They also offer some of the very worst information that you could ever receive. Only a fool would completely trust information from someone he doesn't know on a public forum.......... over that from a magazine writer where you could be sued for putting out bad info. A qualified writer or technician beats the rod builder around the corner just about every time. There are good rod builders and there are bad rod builders. The bad ones don't get to write for the magazine, but they can write all they want for these message boards and nobody is the wiser. --- look at me, I hardly know what I'm doing and I give rod building advice on these forums about every day!!! There are probably people who are actually doing what I'm telling them!!!

You say to use the proper tool for the job, but you forgot that you have use that tool in the proper way to. One nice thing about this site is that you get so many answers to each question that you can study all the answers and see what the overall consensus is. Usually a group of builders that all tend to agree on a solution or answer can be trusted better than when you only get one or two replies. You just have to use your head when getting info off the forums. There's good info there but you have to know how to recognize it.

Tom, great post and I agree 100% I am a new(er) rodbuilder, and I have to credit this website for the majority of my obsession with this craft. I do not have a Rodmaker subscription yet, but I am very much hoping to get one in the near future. Message boards of every type and size are basically open floodgates of info - anybody with an opinion and an internet connection can post it. Now, most of the info on this board is very good and usefull - but you are absolutely correct - the articles in Rodmaker (I have receieved back issues) are far and away superior. Anybody who believes they can get the same info from both sources is foolish or cheap :-) I have a hunch that a hands on demo as in Charlotte is even better instruction. I don' t think you should be shy about encouraging, cajoling, whatever to get builders to subscribe to Rodmaker - it's a great resource, don't feel bad about promoting it a bit. In the end, it will only help the entire "industry".

Has there ever been any thought/talk into doing a subscription based section of rodbuilding.org that contains "how to" videos? With digital video being as easy as it is these days, I would think this would be a quick and easy way to offer a good service to fellow rodbuilders. As a happy subscriber, I must admit that I have a hard time taking things in from reading them in magazines or books. Tons of pictures help, but it's never quite the same as seeing it in action. I learned this when I actually saw Flexcoat's "How We Do It" dvd after reading it. It's a whole world of difference. This is the kind of thing I would gladly pay more for, and I'm sure there are many others that would as well, making it cost effective.

That's certainly a good idea - the only problem being that the available market for such DVDs is very limited. It might be hard to recoup the necessary investment required to produce a video of the same quality as the articles in RodMaker, from the numbers of people who would be interested. I won't rule it out, but I'd have to take a hard look at the market. Topics with a much more broad audience, general rod building such as in the Flex Coat DVD, are obviously much better able to recoup their cost of production.

.............

I just subscribed for 2 years and ordered a couple back issues. An excellent bargain for certain.

I cannot figure out why someone would rely on a magazine, a DVD, an internet site - for progressing their skills. Think about it - if someone was able to write an article for a magazine, or make a post on teh internet telling you how to - at some point they had to figure it out on their own. You can trace everythign back to teh time when there was no magazines, clubs, or anything else - and people were still making rods. How? TRIAL AND ERROR.

Why would you read a magazine or a site & expect to get teh same exact results? Why is it so difficult for people to figure out things on their own. I'm not saying you're not goign to run into a problem you can't figure out that you can't ask for help on - but you shouldn't run to the computer to ask a question every time you can't find a blank, or some other thing you'd figure out with 35 seconds of reasearch or etc.

I do a fair amount of woodworking and while I make daily use of the different woodworking forums for real world reviews on tools, I rely on the two "bibles" of woodworking, Fine Woodworking and WoodWork, for learning techniques and getting new ideas. These two publications are truly learning instruments while the forums are a way of kicking ideas back and forth between other craftsmen. I agree they are totally different. But I also see many of the same problems you mention here. Too many guys trying to learn the more advanced techniques from internet forums that are not really designed to teach them. Nine times out of ten, the guys who are trying to learn from the forums only, are the ones having the trouble.

I don't want to come off sounding snotty on this in any way, but what is the purpose of the internet and this discussion board if not for the free exchange and sharing of information? You would never have come here if it weren't for a chance to help or be helped, to learn or to share. People like myself who are very new to this hobby have every right to be nervous or unsure about stuff considering the cost of some of the materials we deal with. At 100 dollars a blank, I think that affords me every right to ask questions and even re-ask them. I know alotta people say "do a search" to find answers, and I always do. But please realize that topics would be alot slimmer if all people did was rely on previous posts. There's a reason the same questions get asked alot, 1. They're important and 2. Despite having infinite possibilities, most people think and work within a finite set of techniques and approaches. My suggestion for video's is very much geered for newer people like myself who could use some of confidence provided by visually seeing a technique performed and hearing some helpful tips and hints. If nothing else, it gets their own creative juices flowing and opens up new possibilities for each of us to build on. Whereas I can see how many of the same questions I read get annoying, the people who still offer a response every time do nothing but bolster the learning of everyone around us. This website is so great BECAUSE of people like that.

The overwhelming number of topics that are convered in depth in RodMaker Magazine combine to make it the premier resource on the subject; Period. As the issues keep coming the scope continues to expand. The may instructional articles are as valuable to have in the future as they are when first published. For less than the cost of one low end blank each year we have access to a true wealth of accurate and useful information. I truly cannot understand why any serious rod builder would pass on the opportunity to garner this treasure while it is so readliy available. Frankly I consider RodMaker Magazine the most useful and best bargain among all the items available to a custom rod builder. I credit Tom with creating an exemplary publication and only hope that it will continue for many years to come.
Dave

This site is indeed for the sharing of information. But, the point is that it will never offer the depth or variety of information that the magazine will. Again, two different mediums for two different purposes. Each excels at something different.

And, the fact is, without things like magazines or books where you have people researching and writing articles, the craft doesn't grow and evolve nearly as fast. Case in point - how many of you were flocking grips prior to the RodMaker article? How many were even talking about it on the internet? How many companies even offered a rod grip flocking kit prior to the RodMaker article (I'll save you the trouble - zero). How many people were using the Common Cents System? Dr. Hanneman had already developed it a year or two prior - why weren't any rod builders using it? The Simple Spiral Bumper System has been out for 5 years or more. I never saw it mentioned on the internet until after the magazine article. I could go on and on with dozens of similiar examples, but the simple fact is, the magazine and to a definite but lesser degree, these internet sites, serve to hasten the growth and evolution of the craft. Without them, new ideas and techniques develop far more slowy and in virtual anonymity.

My initial post was borne out of the frustration at having to answer so many emails each day, many dealing with technical questions on topics that have been thoroughly covered in RodMaker articles. Upon asking, I usually find that the person with the problem has never read the article. Fair enough, but many even go so far as to tell me that they don't want to buy a copy of the magazine. Obviously, it's cheaper on them to have me teach them the technique via email or to try and have someone do it in a message board post.

No big deal really, but again, those that are serious about learning a particular technique would do well to access the best information possible, even if it costs a few bucks.

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Tom,

perhaps the problem lies in the digital vs. paper realm. In a perfect world, I would like to ask you for every back issue of Rodmaker Magazine that came out before I started my subscription. I know for a fact that there are at least 2 and maybe 3 articles on spiral wraps that I want to get a hold of. However, I don't necessarily know what previous issues had what articles in them. Perhaps an even better effort would be to make the articles digital via OCR (optical character recognition) or digital files (if you have them from your editing) and somehow index them for searching. Again, as an additional service w/ it's own subscription fee, I would gladly pay for the ability to search Rodmaker magazine archives and learn from the outstanding articles. I would defer to the articles every time before posting a question on here, and there are surely many others who aren't so cheap as to want something for nothing all the time. We all know you put alot of effort into this site (even answering these posts is impressive enough), we would gladly pay for the benefits. With thanks,

Joe

Oh, and I didn't mean dvd's earlier, I meant smaller and lower quality downloadable wmv's or mpeg's.

The complete index of articles from the magazine is in the online library here. One reader even put it in a searchable excel file form and that index is also in the library. Let me know how that works for you.

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This seems pretty basic to me Tom. This website and the magazine are two different resources that fill 2 seperate and somewhat divergent needs. I benefit from both in many ways but I would hate to try to get all of my information from the website. At the same time, I would hate to lose this website and the resource that it provides.

Billy, in this instance I have to disagree wholeheartedly with you. Or at least partial-heartedly. Part of the fun of this craft is finding new things on your own. But most of what we do in this area was driven by hearing it or learning it from someone else. I have been building rods since before I could drive, much longer ago than I care to think about. I have learned more about rodbuilding in the last three years since finding this site and the magazine than I had in the previous 20+ years. I believe that I can say with 100% confidence that there is no rodbuilder alive today who would be doing things exactly as they are now without input along the way from other rodbuilders, a website, a publication, something.

Jeff Hunter

Jeff, I agree with that, as I often speak with other builders on how they do things - the difference is my entire rodbuilding lifeline isn't dependant on that. There's a big difference in someone saying I read this or that, I tried it this way and that way, and cannot seem to figure it out. And someone saying - I am too lazy to do anything for myself, tell me every single secret you've learned over the past 500 years, to teh detail, that you've spent a million hours perfecting, and thousands of dollars on wasted components from errors - and give it all to me for free.

Thanks Tom... $70 in back issues I just ordered oughta keep me thinking and working for a long time.

-j

Learning today is synergistically enhanced by Books, Videos, Internet Forums, database Archives, Google Searches and personal contacts. And the old adage of "See one, Do one, Teach one" is as true today as ever. Many of my most important discoveries have come from trying to analyze, articulate, solve, explain and justify why I / we do what we do, and why it is good advice to myself and to anyone else on this RBO Forum.

Like I said earlier today in discussing the bumper system or ceramic guides, it is very easy to misunderstand each other because of a misunderstanding of definitions, or to fail to even establish the level of knowledge at which you are trying to communicate. Getting on the same page means we have the same frame of reference. Without reading the same article (Primer v. Fuji NGC), and having the same definitions (ceramic, transition guide, choke guide, etc) it's bound to lead to frustration.

People still gotta do some homework. And classes in "Trial & Error 101" in the School of Hard Knocks are always open 24-7. No pre-registration required. ... Nothing is fool-proof, and some people will always rush in where angels fear to tread. ... "Poor planning on your part does not necessarily consist an emergency on my part." ... IMO, -Cliff Hall+++

The Seven P's of Planning:
"Proper Prior Planning Prevents P-_-s-s Poor Performance"

And, on the general subject of techniques: ... "A crappie I caught the other day was wondering about my guide spacing. He actually criticized my butt guide placement, saying “ it was clearly too close to the foregrip. I ate him." - Rich Handrick

Re: Concept Oops! The Ratio & Loaded Cone Method
Rich Handrick 08-04-05 14:51 [ [www.rodbuilding.org] ]

This thread and the various opinions of the contributors highlight the strenghs and weaknesses of our craft. The internet board with its "shoot from the hip" responses serves a vital purpose namely getting concepts, ideas and various options, to a large group of people. In most cases the poster responds to a question quickly hitting the high point of mostly successes. The step by step, methodical, boring, repeatable, and sometime difficult tasks are not dealt with in a critical path outline. People who have fine tuned a particular task making it appear simplistic will have a hard time using type written text in a board thread response that will allow anyone else to recreate the end product that they easily achieve.

If we really want to strengthen our communication skills, everyone should take the task of throughly documenting particular skills in a written, critical path step by step, format that could be edited by a panel of experts, fine tuned, updated and included in a data base on the board for all to use.

The magazine has several advantages over the board when dealing with a complex subject. It has the readers undivided attention - reader is not worried about his answer just soaking up information and re-reading - Graphics - a picture is worth a thousand words - Edited prior to publication, how many times have you realized you left something out after you made a post - Detailed critical path methodology - required a lot of planning and thinking - be carefull when doing a post requiring methodology, include all details and who is going to argue with the Bible.

How many times have we seen a post on the board about mixing finishes. There will be posts of all types, for the person asking the question, to go through and sort out. I think all of us would do well if we simply asked them to go to the Flex Coat Link and read the 30 Step Procedure on mixing and applying finish or be more difinitive in just what problems are you having. It would save a lot of time and give a better information base to the person.

We all need to take more care with most posts when we give answers that do not include all the required steps. I came from the world of picky picky step by step procedures aimed at getting large power plants and refineries through a trouble free start up and can assure you that in some cases partial information can be dangerous. I know flocking a grip for someone with only internet information will surely be a one time deal!

This is a long winded post but I would like to close with the outline of planning steps for any major project. I thought about it as far as flocking is concerned and we are now located at the Product Development Phase and have a long way to go! I have undertaken the next step and will have it ready for Charlotte.

Ascertain Need
Market Study
Commit Resources
Product Development
Procedures and Documentation
Enter Market
Engineering Modification
Reduce Cost
Reality
Fact Finding
Persecution of Innocent
Promotion of Non Participants
Turn Over to Attorneys For Liquidation

Gon Fishn