I am new to rod building. I have prepared three blanks with handles, seat, and tip top. I'm ready to place my guides. All three rods will be for So. California surf fishing. I like to walk the surf and cast for perch, halibut, etc. I have the length, action, and power that I like. Two are St Croix SCV and one is an Amtak IM6 that I got in a liquidation sale. All are 7' baitcasters. My problem right now is the lack of detailed information regarding the New Concept System. I want to use this system but I need more information. I ordered the 2 RodMaker magazine volumes with the article but they have not arrived yet. Does anyone know generally how long it takes to get back issues delivered? Or better yet a location for details regarding New Concept guide placement on lighter action bait casters? I have read Tom's book 10-20 times and Dale Clemens several times too. I am still not satisfied that I understand exactly how to implement the New Concept system. I'm getting mighty antsy to get going on these guides.

Click on the library button and read Tom K.'s New Concept Primer

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Leon, look above at the "Library". It has a good article on the "New Guide Concept."
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Opps! Sorry! That is for spinning rods! However, there is a article there regarding guide placement also.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

The new guide concept for baitcasters is easy. Same placement as always, just get down to your smallest guides quickly. For instance you might have once used-

12 10 10 8 8 8 8

On the new guide concept you'd go like this-

12 10 8 8 8 8 8 8 8

The guides are lower so you have to use a couple more of them. But they're light so it really doesn't hurt you at all.

Casting rods are no big deal. Space them like the article in the library on static guide placement says.

OK. I taped-up 16 14 12 8 8 6 6 6 at this point. When I tried 14 12 8 8 8 6 6 6 I was getting some slap before the butt guide. Clemens says to make the butt guide larger or taller or whatever it takes. That's what I'm understanding anyway. Maybe I'll try a 14 V frame and then 12 8 8 6 6 6 6. Thanks for your help. I think I'm close.

Leon,

Give some serious consideration to using the "bumper" spiral system, quick easy and the benefits are well worth it!



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

You don't need the inter-mediate guides. Get rid of them, they do nothing for you other than add weight.

If you're going to use something as large as a 16, drop to a 12 or 10 and then on the 6's and be done with it. There is no need for 10's or 8's in there. Try to stay out of the habit of using guides just because they're available.

.....

That's what I will do. I'll double-check that I really need the 16 and then drop down quicker then finish all with 6's. Thanks much.

Ok Tom,
You have me wondering now. So by reading what you said if I am building a bass rod say a 6'6" or 7'0" then I could start out with a 12 then single foot ten and finish out with 6's all the way to the tip? Sorry if I am overthinking this but I am a bit confused right now.

Tom Kaufmann
SSgt USMC.

Ok Tom,
You have me wondering now. So by reading what you said if I am building a bass rod say a 6'6" or 7'0" then I could start out with a 12 then single foot ten and finish out with 6's all the way to the tip? Sorry if I am overthinking this but I am a bit confused right now.

Tom Kaufmann
SSgt USMC.

That's how I would do it. Looks a little odd at first cause you're not used to seeing it done that way. But it works as well or better. All these decending guide sizes are probably more for the benefit of the rod builder than they are for the rod. We could probably throw out half of them and everything would work just as well and we could buying all these different sizes.

One thing to look for - on the butt guide there are two different guide heights. Regular cast guides and a " V " frame which is a little higher.
Under pressure make sure the line does not hit the foregrip or your hand when on the foregrip.
Also under pressure you may have to shorten the distance between your tip single foot guides. You don't want the line to touch the blank, with guides on top.

The concept system works very well mainly with a spin set up because of the " pigtails " have to be controlled.

Cast and fly the line comes off the reel streight so you can go to your smaller guides faster.
Just check any knots that have to pass though the tip top guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2005 09:59AM by bill boettcher.

The butt guide needs to be whatever size and height that it needs to be. If that's a 12, fine. If that's a 20, fine.

But beyond that, there is little sense in the type sizing that most of us, myself included, have used for so many years. For instance, you often see something like 16 - 12 - 10 - 10 - 8 - 8 - 8. You'd be better off doing something like 16 - 12 - 8 - 8 - 8 - 8 - 8 - 8 or whatever. Going through all the different sizes and using multiples of them because it seems to represent some sort of mathematical progression just isn't necessary. The line only uses a tiny fraction of the ring diameter anyway. So the main concern is static stress distribution (using enough guides).

.....................

This thread suggests that total conformity to a set of "old" finite rules and regulations MAY keep someone from producing a custom rod that performs well and truly stands out from the crowd.

Is Tom proposing heresy or the use of just plain good sense. Which of the following is correct?

Natural Cork surface is mandatory for grips - no flock, no wood, no EVA
Conventional Guide Wrap only way - no spirals
Correct distance spacing of guides all blanks - No custom spacing allowed
Which Finish MUST I use - Flexcoat, Trondike, Amtak, Glass Coat, Spar
Hand Writing on Blank - No weaving or decals permitted
Foregrip must be 3.25 inches - Rules forbid cutting seat and removing foregrip.
Butt Wraps Boxes and Closed Wraps Only - No Chevrons or Marbleizing
Quality Level of Weaving Approved by Doc, Jim, Hiro and Mark - Other Not Permitted
Must Use Tape Arbors - No graphite or Flexcoat Arbors
Spine Must Be on Top for Casting - ? Blank is curved to left ?
A rod lathe must be used to wrap thread - No manual V blocks Permitted
Color Preserver Must Be Used on All Thread - I just quit building on this one!!
Must Use Spatula - No brush allowed
Only Alcohol Torch Permitted - No cig lighter or propane torch

on n on n on non - - - - - - -

Gon

None, if I get your meaning ?