I want to see if anybody else is having this problem. I built a DC 8'9" SigV 6wt. with Titan guides. I've used this rod most of the summer and have been utterly pleased with it until this last trip. For no apparent reason 3 ceramic (hardloy) rings just fell out of the frames. It was the coldest day I've been fishing with it, so I wonder if the temp had anything to do with it. Or is this a problem with the Titans? Either way I'm going to change them all out. I'm not sure if I just got a bad batch (from Cabelas) or is this is inherent to the guides.

Titan's DO NOT have Hardloy inserts. They are Nanolite, which are harder & slicker than HArdaloy.

I cannot answer your question since I haven't used them to this point.

I really don't know - I haven't used any in extreme temperatures. The set I've played around with seem very nice, although they are more easily bent than the titanium alloy frames from Fuji (the Titans also cost one heck of a lot less).

I'm pretty sure that Joe Meehan at American Tackle would very much appreciate hearing of your experience with his guides. You'll find him to be very helpful and I'm positive he'll do whatever he can to make any improvements needed in those guides, as well as get you any replacements needed.

The Titans are still pretty new. It will take a bit of time and reports from actual users in the field to iron out any actual deficiencies in the guides, if they are there to begin with. But again, do make sure you contact Joe via the American Tackle Website and let him know of your experience.

..........

Denis

No offence but things like this are some times user error ?
Did you bang the rod maybe ??? Did you maybe step on it and for got.

When the first ring fell out of the frame I thought I may had damaged it myself, but when the 2nd ring fell out 30 minutes later I was sure I had not damaged it because I was still fishing the same stretch of river and haven’t been walking through the woods or laid the rod down. The 3rd ring fell out about 1 hour later and forced me to walk back to my truck and get my backup rod. The rings fell out of the (from the tip) 3rd, 6th, (both single foot guides) and 8th guide (double foot Stripping guide). And I stand corrected on the Nanolite rings (not Hardloy). Thanks for the correction.

I'll try to contact AmTac today for any suggestions. Has anyone else seen this?

When the first ring fell out of the frame I thought I may had damaged it myself, but when the 2nd ring fell out 30 minutes later I was sure I had not damaged it because I was still fishing the same stretch of river and haven’t been walking through the woods or laid the rod down. The 3rd ring fell out about 1 hour later and forced me to walk back to my truck and get my backup rod. The rings fell out of the (from the tip) 3rd, 6th, (both single foot guides) and 8th guide (double foot Stripping guide). And I stand corrected on the Nanolite rings (not Hardloy). Thanks for the correction.

I'll try to contact AmTac today for any suggestions. Has anyone else seen this?

Contact American Tackle -- this does not sound good

mmmm this really sounds bad since i just ordered 73 dollars worth of these guides

Matt
I just did a search on the Titans. A lot like them and have not found that many things wrong with them.
Try it and see what is being said. Guess only time will tell.

i know they were fairly popular being that they were backordered but im just hoping that i not gonna have to keep replacing these things

If you only bought $73 worth, you won' have many to replace anyhow. Relax.

What do people expect - a brand new product comes out on the market, you rush out to buy it - regardless of all the testing the company did pre-release, when ANYTHING (guides, cars, computer programs) goes out into Production for the first time, the end User will find a way to screw it up that ws not tested for. The company will go back, make the proper adjustments, and have a better product.

I know we all expect everythign to work 100% correctly in 100% of the conditions, but we aren't on Fantasy Island, tht's hardly how things work. One reel company, which everyone loves in teh SW comes out. They had one problam after another, and for 2 years were re-doing teh models. They finally got it to teh point where everyone was happy - my friend took teh reel out on a trip in 15 degree temps - the drag washers froze and didn't work. Company did more testing and found out the drag didn't work in freezing temps (the company I think is from Cali were it's never less than 60, lol).

Who knows why this happened, it's not panic time - I'm sure someone from Amtak will address this off teh boards and figure it out, and if in fact there is a specific problem in a certain condition, they'll fix it. As they have in the past.

I have used the Titans, in 20 degree weather this year crappie fishing, on a spinnindrod set-up and did not have any issues. I really like these guides.

Dan Grulke

I called AmTac yesterday and talked with Chase in Florida. He told me that they did test them for cold weather (for Ice Rods) and found no problems. I told him I'd remove all the guides and send them to him for inspection. He mentioned there was 1 other person who had a similar problem, but they were on bigger guider (Surf Rod). To his knowledge we were the only 2 cases of the rings falling out he knew of. Chase was great to talk to and I'm positive AmTac will address the issue. I'll probably wait to see what they say about the guides I send in before I put new Titan guides back on. But if they say there shouldn't be any more problems; I'll wrap a new set on.

Murphy has a way of following me around, so I wouldn't sound any alarms. I've read too many good things about the Titans. I was just wondering if anybody else had seen this before, and what they had heard, or done to correct it.

Hello Denis,

I was informed of your post yesterday and my partner Joe Meehan often likes to address these types of situations personally. He is currently out of town on business so I thought I would post in his absence.

I must tell you that I am disappointed to learn of any possible dissatisfaction of anyone who chooses to use our products. We strive for product superiority and customer satisfaction so much that we continously introduce new product options in materials, finishes, and styles. Prior to their introduction we always use them as they are intended, by building rods and aggressively fishing them. I take exceptional joy in conducting this type of research. Generally we do some rudimentary in-house testing as well as commision independent laboratories to determine if our theories on materials and finishes are correct. In addition to our scrutiny, we send samples out to some rod builders for their opinions and evaluations. Often projects may not make it to market in the form of "first designs" based on the response. If everything has gone according to plan, we send parts out to large manufacturers to run them through their quality control systems. Obviously this also helps build some fan-fare among rod companies that may land us some contractual work for large volume business. This approach works well, we can get a feel for product performance and market acceptance prior to mass marketing.

The Titan guides followed our usual pattern for the new product introduction. Once the first few sample sets were evaluated, we made some material adjustments and continued with the process to market. We have had at least 75-100 rods built and evaluated (which means fished too) by custom rod builders, sales reps in the field, and rod company designers. I cannot tell you haw many sets have been sold, built, or fished, the best guess could be thousands. Most of the rod builders whether they are rod companies or individuals will not use anything until they test things for themselves. So far, we have only encountered an extremely small amount of ring fall-out. Being typical of all ceramic insert guides, most builders accept that ceramics can fall out of metal frames and titanium alloy is no different. In fact, titanium alloy being a softer material then stainless could provide additional damage due to rough use. From what I can determine so far, ring fall-out is still more prevalent in stainless frames although no specific numbers have been examined and the titanium guides have been used for slightly over one year. (American Tackle actually uses material upgrades in our "Atlas" stainless frames to address not only corrosion but ring fall-out as well) Several rod companies have only recently given us the thumbs up on the Titan guides almost a year later. One used a automated machine designed to deflect and twist the rod into exaggerated positions in order to encourage rod failure, they passed with flying colors. The rod designers have told us that their evaluations always include ring chipping and fall-out as relataively normal unless they seem to occur in mass or what they determine as prematurely. They said that the Titan guides didn't show any greater propensity for failure then anything they have used so far. They also are quick to point out that based on the quality of the product Titans would be used for their customers would probably not mistreat their rods due to the greater monetary investment. To my knowledge only one manufacturer said they would be overly concerned about using titanium frames due to potential ring fall-out. In their testing they produced some ring fall-out but they admitted they had bent and over flexed the frames beyond normal use and they were not mounted onto a rod. I would think that twisting the frames into pretzel should rarely happen in the field but I did point out that if they did this to the stainless frames they currently use the same results would occur. They ageed.

With all this being said, I will not state that this problem cannot occur, however I will say that this is the first report of this nature we have encountered. We will examine the Titans like everything else we offer and always welcome consumer evaluations and criticisms. This interaction can head off potential problems and aid us in the design of better products that rod builders and fishermen can rely on.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns. (866) 516-1750.

Sincerly,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Darren,

All in all I've been very happy with your product and products. I enjoyed the Titan guides (and the Dan Craft rod) so much this year it's the reason I was fishing with that particular rod even though I usually use a heavier rod to fish the river I was on. It's also why I have another DC rod in my wrapping stand with Titan guides now. As I said earlier; Murphy follows me around like a shadow, so I was only looking to see if it was Murphy or if I wasn't alone. I told Chase I'll be out of town for a while, so I couldn't answer all his questions about exact guide sizes or send the guides in question out to him right away. But he was great to talk with, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond and keeping your radar up and looking for potential problems.

From what I see, and read, I guess Murphy may have bit me again.

Thanks to all

Maybe the ceramic rings shrank so much due to the cold weather that they fell off.?

Mikko
That sounds like a good possibility.

I have yet to return home, cut the guides off and send them to American Taclle for them to inspect. I've been thinking about it and I'm beginning to suspect the rings fell out as a result of several reasons. #1 The temp was a factor, #2 Ice in the guides, #3 as the ice built up, and as I was making the cast, the forward pull from the cast was pulling flyline that was now frozen to the ring. It would explain why I found all the rings floating along the fly line above (twords the tip of the rod) the guide the ring fell (pulled out) of. The adhesive used to glue the ring in place may have had issues with the temp extreme and was unable to hold the guide in place. If the ring did shrink due to the temp I'm sure it didn't help anything.

As I am fully aware, I'm no rocket scientist, and I'm sure American Tackle will be able to better diagnose the problem than I. They performed great all summer and I like them alot.

maybe it's time for a cold season rod ?? larger wire guides that don't have a ring to pull out ??

That's exactly what I'm leaning twords.