Posted a message under "cp problems" if you what my problem was. Because of my trouble with Gudebrod 811 I called the company and spoke to the man that was incharge of the thread and cp branch. This is the info he relayed to me. 811 can be diluted with either denatured alcohol or distilled water. He uses a half and half solution of alcohol and 811for his first coating. He then lets it dry and then uses 10% alcohol and the rest 811for his second coat.
Here is what I did and it worked well. I mixed half and half for my first coating in doing so I did one guide at a time covering the threads and just the threads , no dripping no cleanup. Oh,I used water but didn't have distilled. Boiled water and ran it thru a coffee filter.Waited till it dried then used 6 drops of 811 to 1 drop of water,and followed the same procedure.Worked fine. Observations For me 811 dries too fast for me to do a good job of coating in the concentrated form. The same thing is true of using alcohol .dries too quick even when doing one guide at a time. Im going to stick with water and use a little a possible to coat the guides. Hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the info Bill. I just got a bottle of 811 and now I know how and what to look for. Not sure I will like it. I usually thin out Elmer wood glue with water, thin and it has been working well.
Have a white blank with yellow nylon that has it on up on the photo page. The elmers worked well to keep the color of that yellow thread.

Bill, there has been some questions about the lack of uv blockers in Elmers I believe. I can"t impress on you enough to do only one giude at a time and finish it. The stuff drys fast and there is no moving it witha brush

Bill - thanks for the info. I had not even thought about calling Gudebrod - that was a good idea.
So far, I have used CP on every rod I have made, and only have used 811 (went overboard and bought 2 bottles when I started. Didn't realize how far it goes). With the very first rod, the 811 got tacky. Didn't know this wasn't normal, and when I applied the epoxy the colors were a little bit splotchy. Since then, I have taken a lot of time on each wrap, and made sure that all the threads were saturated, and everything has been good. But, maybe by thinning it I can do it a little quicker.
Steve Broadwell
www.bcrods.com

Be careful when talking to Gudebrod about \"their\" color preserver. They don\'t make it and don\'t seem to really know all that much about it.

Bill From what i understand there is not really any thing that will protect threads from fading in the sun.

Is there an advantage that the 811 has over, say, U-40 CP? I've been using the U-40 with good results, no problems. I've also used it for feather inlays. It's water-based and dries slowly, but it works well for me.

Dave

Dave,
811 holds spool color closer than U-40. U-40 allows the thread to darken more over a dark blank. On thicker bottles of 811(it is fairly variable in thickness from one bottle to the next), you do need to thin it about 25-30% on the first coat to help thread penetration and to insure filling the tunnels at the guide feet. I use it full strength for the second coat. Also U-40 can cause kind of a cloudy look over black thread and decals. With 811, coat thick and quick, then leave it alone.

Johnathan Sams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Be careful when talking to Gudebrod about
> \"their\" color preserver. They don\'t make it and
> don\'t seem to really know all that much about it.


What teh heck, it sounds like the person Bill spoke to knew enough about it to give him a technique that worked pretty good. Or am I crazy?

"I called the company and spoke to the man that was incharge of the thread and cp branch. This is the info he relayed to me. 811 can be diluted with either denatured alcohol or distilled water. He uses a half and half solution of alcohol and 811for his first coating. He then lets it dry and then uses 10% alcohol and the rest 811for his second coat.
Here is what I did and it worked well. I mixed half and half for my first coating in doing so I did one guide at a time covering the threads and just the threads , no dripping no cleanup. Oh,I used water but didn't have distilled. Boiled water and ran it thru a coffee filter.Waited till it dried then used 6 drops of 811 to 1 drop of water,and followed the same procedure.Worked fine. "

My apologies to all for my ignorance, but if he boiled the water, ran it through a coffee filter, and then waited for it to dry, with what did he thin the CP. I have never been able to thin anything with dried water. If you can find a drop, then it's not dry.

You have a legitimate question Lynn. I mixed the water and the pc together. Applied it to the wrappings.

Bill Cohen,

"Bill, there has been some questions about the lack of uv blockers in Elmers I"
CP has nothing to do with UV and NO CP will block UV rays, nor will any finish on the market. CP is meant to prevent the thread color from changing when finish is applied, not to prevnt fading.

Mike

Mike - that's not totally true, apparantly one CP causes threads to fade at an accelerated pace. One of the Sussies posted the pics & a description a while back. For this here post, I agree with you though, I know what you are saying & etc.

Billy,

I saw that test but one test doesn't really prove a whole lot unless it can be duplicated enough to show consistant results (not that I doubt it) If the CP caused the thread to fade than it was the CP, not UV rays. There just hasn't been any research (that I know of) to produce any valid data. I would think that the thread itself would have to be UV resistant.

Mike

Mike ,I think Tom as well Ralph O'Quinn talk about uv blockers in cps in some of their replys to certain messages.If I'm not mistaken.

Mike - I hear you on repetitive testing, but all it takes for me is one time. THe same thread was used for all CP's & epoxies, one failed by itself & under epoxy, that's more than enough for me. There were all teh other ones which were pretty much fine, and that one which stuck out like a sore thumb.

The test that Myles and I did (that I STILL need to get around to writing a test report on) also showed that a variety of threads treated with a certain CP (glass coat) faded significantly more, and faster, than the same threads with a different CP as well as threads with no CP at all. While I have no actual evidence, I feel that it has less to do with "UV blockers" than it does with a physical/chemical change to the thread dye upon application. Threads with this CP faded faster and more than threads without this CP, regardless of type and depth of finish used. I will try and get a decent report on the full test soon. (I know, I've been meaning to get around to this for some time now, but it's been a busy summer for me. It will be done soon... really!!!)

Over the past few years I've tried about all the color preservers on the market. With the Flex Coat and U40 Color Lock I find my light colored threads sort of fade out quickly in just a season or two. It's really noticable. Both the Gudebrod 811 and Glass Coat Pro Color Sealer seem to hold the color on those same light threads with no fading at least after a full and hard season. Color retention seems about the same to me at least but the Glass Coat is easier to work with IMO.

Shawn, teh color retention with all of them is good enough, as long as you don't put them side by side. Nobody puts rods ide by side, so teh colors all hold up for the most part good enough for 95% of us.

However, side by side, 811 does a slightly better job than GC CP, but you really have to look hard to tell, so you are right, they are the same. I actually did a rod withich I put 1/2 811 & 1/2 GC on teh butt wrap, just to see what happens over time. Too bad I use the rod only in the Winter when the UV level is low and nothing has changed that I can notice.

Thanks for the info Bill. My experience has been the same. One guide at a time, don't flood. I will probably thin my 811 by about 20% with alcohol and use it for all the coats, as I do put on 3 coats. On the 3rd coat it begins to sparkle. Under a loupe it looks very good and flat. I finish with varnish or Klass Kote epoxy paint. In response to one of the questions, 811 is clear and also seems to function as a finish. I suspect you could finish the wrap with only 811.