I have tried a number of techniques discussed on this board for positioning and holding guides prior to wrapping -- rubber bands, elastic thread, etc. -- and each seems to have benefits and drawbacks. I recently tried the small wire-tie approach, and liked the ease of putting the guides on and aligning them using these ties; however when starting to wrap, I found that any little bump (I can be a little clumsy when wrapping) can throw them back out of line.

I'm wondering if anyone has used any type of glue after positioning and aligning with the wire-ties to stabilize the guides before they're wrapped? I was thinking along the lines of a fairly thin glue where a drop could be applied to the side of the guide foot using something like a bodkin and it would wick under the foot, holding it to the blank. If it did the job well enough, you might even be able to cut the ties off prior to wrapping.

Any help? Thanks.

Bilgee

I use rubber bands for static tests. They work well for moving things yet keeping the guides tight on the rod. After that I never worry about aligning guides (except for all of them generally facing the same direction) until the first guide is wrapped. That's when I move it into position as straight as possible so the other guides can follow it. After they're all wrapped adjust them for the final time. Your wraps should be loose enough to move the guide pretty well. If you can't move it around the wraps are too tight.

I hear ya Bill. I've tried several ways; some of them, as my thread tries to climb up the foot of the guide, just allow the thread to keep 'pushing' the guide ahead of it. I sure didn't like that at all.

I haven't tried the adhesive that some on the board use. Flex Coat makes it, it's a hot melt stick and they just dab it on the bottom of the guide and set it on the blank and wrap.

I went back to my sliced strips of masking tape.

Putter
Williston, ND

Putter,

Tried the glue stick too, but the problem there is that you're sticking the guide down into its "final" position -- if it's wrong, you pull it off, reheat, restick, etc. I'm trying to figure out how to align the guides while they're being held down with something (ike the wire ties) allowing movement, but then get the guides glued into their final position prior to wrapping.

Bilgee

Personally, I like the sliced masking tape......Don't matter much if alignment isn't perfect because you always adjust them just before putting on the Flex-Coat. William Harvey, if you see this....You wouldn't be up there in the mountains of western N.C. would you? I was intrigued by the Nantahala thing in your ip... I was raised In Robbinsville.

Bil,

I've also tried durn near everything, including very small alligator clips. Am back to using small rubberbands (doubled on the tip end) and narrow strips of tape, in combination with the rubber bands. That is to say, I use both rubber bands & tape on each guide.

Stan

PS: Water temps are cooling. Fishing should be good when you get back down.

The Flex Coat glue will hold the guides in place during the wrapping. Just make sure you use a small amount and you can still make small adjustments to align the guides after wrapping.

It's not as easy to static test as the other methods. That's why I static test with tape, mark the guides with a china marker, then use the glue stick to reset them prior to wrapping.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

Putter
I have found that the guides do get pushed, but only if the taper of the foot is not enough.
Had it happen, then started to taper the foot more and the thread just walked right onto the foot.
After I grind, I file them and then hit them with about 220 sandpaper. Seems to give a nice grip for the thread.

If the guide still moves, I'll wrap to the start of the foot, then wrap over the foot about 1/16" 5-8 wraps and slide the thread to it's place.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2005 08:03AM by bill boettcher.

I have really good luck using surgical tubing (fit fairly tight to the blank dia.) cut into small strips to hold guide feet down. After the guide's secured enough with thread, just snip the tubing off. Just remember to slide them down the blank before you glue on your tip top!

Im glue stick guy. I put a very slight bit on the tip of the guide this holds it down and makes it easier for the thread to travle up the guide. After ive wraped the guide I brake it loose witha slight sidewards motion. You will have no trouble aligning the guides its not permanent As far as static distribution and test casting the is nothing easier than elastic thread. I first teflon the foot of the guide .Wrap the guide to the rod with elastic thread and test cast and static test all you want. They stay right in place. You can also move the guides up and down the rod within reason,no problem. You can cut the thread eliminate the guide or add more thread if it is too loose. Elastic thread can be bought in Walmart in the sewing center or probably any sewing store.I think its 80 cents for a hunderd yards .

Bill B
I must use more tension or something. On the tip area's guides, I grind them real thin. Not so much on the backbone area of the rod, though.

But they still pushed ahead on me when wrapping...

Putter
Williston, ND

The glue stick doesn't put the guide in its final place. If you apply pressure it will still give. I use it exclusively along with a Forhan wrap and am still able to nudge my guides into a final alignment prior to the epoxy coat. Once you learn to work with the glue stick and get a consistant coat on the guide foot its an easy way to apply gudes.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 04:42PM by Stan Grace.

I do plan on getting a stick of the Flex Coat and trying it, BTW. Just haven't got it...yet...

Putter
Williston, ND

Masking tape.....a rodbuilders third hand.

i use the wire ties as well and only have trouble when the diameter of the rod gets small near the tip. i have applied a very small droplet of superglue. it wicks right under the guide foot and provides enough
hold so they don't slip. make sure its dry so it does not wick up into the thread. on larger diameter sections i have not had a problem and i do a final alignment after the whole rod is wrapped. your wrap should not be so tight that you can't move the guide to align it.

Go to any hobby shop that deals in mdels. They carry plastic tubing used for model engine fuel lines, etc. It comes in various diameters, is inexpensive and with a cutting board and a razor blade you can slice off a years worth of thin rubber bands. Slide as many as you need, with a couple of extras, on to the blank (before the tip is installed) space them were you want and slide the guide feet under them. They are easily moved and adjusted and once you wrap up onto the guide foot, just nick with a razor blade and they fly of. Quick, easy and best of all CHEAP!



Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2005 09:34PM by Mike Barkley.

A strip of 1/4'' masking tape over the top of the guide foot and positioned over both sides of the blank. IMO the fastest and easiest way to position a guide.

Lance

I have had good success with electrical heat shrink tubing. Really holds tight!
Easily cut off also!Not expensive but not cheap either. I am going to try the surgical
tubing and or Mike Barkley's method soon. It pays to be versatile.


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I have a different method to this problem.

I used to build for a manufacturer. Mostly Fly, spin and baitcaster rods, all of which used a lot of single foot alconite guides. As i needed to produce a fair number of rods each week, i found that using tape was just too slow and needed something that was easier and quicker.

One day while i was waiting for my wife in a craft/hobby shop, i noticed some wooden pegs of different sizes, from very small to your regular clothes peg size. Apparently, the pegs are decorated by painting them (why i will never know).
Anyway, i bought a small bag of each size and have found them to be invaluable when holding the guide to the blank while i wrapped up onto the foot a few turns, then remove the peg and continue to wrap. I also found them very good when working on spacing guides on your blank, its simply a matter of pegging your guide where you want them, standing back to check and if you need to re-position it, just release the peg, move the guide where you want and let go.

Very efficient, very fast and still works a treat for me today.

I have had those pegs for 5 years now.





Regards,

Peter.
Rods On The Fly,
Newcastle, Australia.

I've tried it all, and the best (by far) that I've found are the tiny orthodontic elastics--the really stiff ones used to hold the wires in the brackets of braces. They come about twenty-five or thirty to a "stick," and they have about a 1.5-2mm opening, but they'll stretch quite aways. I use three/guide. When I'm test-casting, I spread them out over the length of the guide foot, and when I'm wrapping, I slide them all up near the leg of the guide foot. They are stiff enough that they don't allow the guide to move up or down the rod while test casting. But, with a little pressure, they will slide up and down the rod easily while doing a distribution test. For a typical fly rod (which for me is a 9' 4wt.), I use one "stick," and they cut off quite easily after wrapping. For the larger portions of the blank, I use small diameter medical stretch tubing (which I think is the same stuff that is used for the model fuel lines). It doesn't hold as well as the ortho. tubing, but it works.

There is a little prep. time involved in pulling the little elastics off the "stick" and sliding them down the blank, but the ease of placing guides is well worth it. Nevermore will I mess with masking tape that refuses to stick, etc.