If one has hypersensitivity to epoxy, what is the best alternative (glass and graphite blanks)
for finishing wraps which most closely approximates the look of epoxy, and also what would you use to glue the reel seat and rod handle? Thanks.

I would use gloves, and a mask.

I guess you could CP the wraps, and finish with Nail Polish like Sally HAnsen HArd as Nails.

I'm guessing here.

Well, varnish was used for many years before epoxy and it still works fine as a guide wrap finish. I recommend Man-O-War spar varnish, which you can find in many hardware stores.

Permagloss, or the Gudebrod one part water based urethane wrap finish. In fact, that might be your best choice.

Epoxy is uniquely suited for bonding handles and grips because it works so well with such a wide variety of materials. There was once a product named Urethane Bond made by Dow Corning that was an excellent substitute, but I do not believe it is made any more. Short of that you may need to do a bit of a search for a suitable adhesive for bonding these mostly non-porous materails.

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Sutherland Welles Ltd.'s Marine Spar Varnish Is the best I know of. The only supplier I've found is Golden Witch, on the left. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Thanks for the help. Bob

“Severe Reaction to Epoxy” -Tom Doyle- -Feb. 22, 2005- [www.rodbuilding.org] “I came across this on a surf fishing board (Hatteras Jack) and am copying it here, unedited. Anyone know of similar cases of severe allergic reactions to epoxy?” -Tom Doyle-

It contains some really good general information on hypersensitivity allergy to epoxy. And on the use of gloves from Erik Kunz, CIH. However, no specific recommendations for alternates to epoxy were discussed in Doyle's Thread.

Obviously, in cases of true hypersensitivity, even gloves and a respirator may not provide adequate protection, and ALL epoxies must be ABSOLUTELY avoided. A severe overproduction of lung secretions and airway swelling can develop within a few minutes, and cause DEATH by airway blockage. -Cliff Hall+++

"HELLO ! " - I think it could be LIFE-THREATENING to Bob Johnson if he takes any advice from us, however well intended, to do anything other than AVOID ALL EPOXIES. At least for now, until an allergist characterizes his condition. If that is economically or otherwise impractical, he must avoid ALL epoxies to be safe.

BOB - Is this a self-diagnosis of hypersensitivity? Or did you have a severe reaction already that produced contact dermatitis? Or an actual incident of difficulty breathing? Or what ??? ... Consult your allergist or at least medical attention to define if it is a true hypersensitivity allergy, or one of the other 3 forms of allergic responses which are troubling you, to be safe.

Cliff Hall, 4th year Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) Candidate (Univ. of Florida)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2005 10:21PM by Cliff Hall.

Someone emailed me about the current crop of urethane adhesives like Gorilla Glue. I have used these on wood with great results. I just don't know how well they work on things like EVA and reel seat bonding to blank. They may be excellent for all I know.

It is important to read the instructions for these types of adhesives. They cure only in the presence of moisture and it is very important that you moisten the mating sufaces before applying the adhesive. Consult the manufacturer's specific instructions if you try one of these.

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Bob, An alternative for you might be to purchase a HobyAir 2 or simular fresh air system used in the auto painting field. It is a stand alone turbine unit which is located in a seperate area for the fresh air supply. A hose then supply's your hood with nice cool fresh air. Ed

In the old days, Gudebrod "Ferrule Cement" was used on about everything. Grips, seats, cork rings, etc., all were adhered with the use of this hot melt adhesive. In excels in some areas, but isn't all that great in others. I don't even know if they still make it, but at one time it was the standard for most custom rod builders.

If you can't use epoxy, I would take a hard look at the urethane adhesives. For gluing cork rings to each other, Titebond II or III are excellent.




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Your hypersensitivty to epoxies is actually a hyper sensetivity to the hardener not the epoxide. Hardeners are amines and even opening a bottle and letting the amines into the adjacent air can cause severe problems to people with this hyper sensetivity. Stay away from anything remotely suggesting that an amine be involved which means all epoxies -- don't attempt to rely on anything like gloves, creams, hoods etc. Just stay away from them period.

Nothing is going to look like the epoxies on a thread wrap, but the urethanes are your best bet. Permagloss will look similar with 4 to 6 coats, but it will never have that smooth depth appearance of the epoxies. The new Gorilla glues are expanding urethanes very similar to the old Dow Corning Urethane Bond, in fact they just might be the same product, and make excellent bonds for reel seats, handles etc. Nothing beats the epoxies for all around versatility and general usefulness -- but there are several technologies in the general handyman category and the wood working field, that can be adapted to rod building with a little imagination. A hyper sensetivity to the epoxies automatically makes one a little more imaginative than most of us.

Ralph



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2005 08:34PM by Tom Kirkman.

Mr. O'Quinn's posts are invaluable to we folks.

Thanks, and glad to see you're back helping keep us straight.

Stan

What about the new Diamondite rod finsh, I checked the original thread and it says that it is not an epoxy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2005 08:38PM by Herb Bickings.

It does not utilize the same type of hardener to cure. It uses UV light. So it might be okay for finishing, but won't help him much on adhesives.

Considering the number of finishing alternatives, I'd say his problem is more with the adhesive end of things.

The old DOW Urethane Bond was a great product. But it was sticky and thick as chewing gum. Not good for mounting grips. Terrible in fact. The newer urethane adhesives being marketed for wood working are much thinner and slicker, until they begin to set. They would be much easier to use for mounting grips and seats, but unlike epoxy, it is imperitive that you have a very snug fitting joint or that you clamp the parts in order to get a good bond. They are only strong in a very, very thin glue line. Epoxy generally doesn't require clamping or extremely tight fitting joints in order to provde a decent bond (good snug fitting joints are always preferred, of course). This will be the one drawback to using the urethane types in rod building. Your parts had better fit very well - the foam you see from the expansion has little to no strength. Don't expect to just pour in a little extra Gorilla Glue to take up room in a sloppy fitting joint. It will fail.

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This is an amazing forum; I never expected such a response. I appreciate the suggestions concerning the alternatives. I definitely agree with the strong advice to avoid unpolymerized epoxy. I researched the further use of epoxy after a friend experienced a severe reaction, and it is clear that the only safe
course to follow is to use something else. Now I know that there is no altogether comparable substitute. Many thanks. Bob

3M 4200 marine adhesive sounds like it might work too. It's a slow cure urethane adhesive. It comes in small and large tubes, like caulking, and has about the same consistency. I haven't used it on rods, but it worked well on wood , fiberglass and plastic in my boat.