I just did my first practice feather inlay on a scrap piece of blank with a grizzly hackle feather from an old Metz neck and got what I believe is referred to in rod-building circles as a "fish eyes" look (like a fuel spill on a lake). I had washed the neck with ivory dish soap in warm water, thoroughly rinsed and dried it. The feathers didn't seem greasy before I did this, and they certainly didn't afterwards, and still the problem.

My questions are these: 1) Is there anything else I can do to this neck to help solve the problem...i.e. wash it in something else, or another solvent that won't harm it? I find it hard to believe that additional baths in the same soap will help, but if anyone knows otherwise, please let me know. 2) Is there any realistic expectation that other feathers from this neck will work? I had big plans to use quite a few of these feathers. My formula is Gudebrod 811 CP on Gudebrod nylon A thread, then dunk the feather in thinned 811 and place it on the color-preserved thread, with FlexCoat lite over the inlay after drying.

If this happens on an actual rod in the future, any hope of salvaging the inlay? I've read previously that you can try and sand lightly and re-epoxy, with mixed results. Anything else?

I did not find an answer to this question doing a search.

Fish eyes would be represented by hundreds of small dimples on the surface. Moisture would be represented by what looks like an oil slick - an odd greasy film that seems to be swirled throughout the finish. (It's actually a combination of moisture and CO2).

So obviously you had something on the feather that didn't get rinsed off - a silicone or some soap, or something. I would wash the neck again and give it a very thorough cold water rinse. Make very sure it's dry. Then, try again. Ivory or Dawn are both fine for washing. Dawn tends to cut oils better. But do give the neck a really good cold water rinse after washing.

While the Gudebrod 911 is great for color retention on threads, I've found it very poor for use on feather inlays. The straight acrylics (white CP) seem better suited for use on feathers. They don't retain bubbles and soak in a bit better.

If you have as you say, "a fuel spill on a lake," then I suspect moisture moreso than silicone. Let the finish set for a few days in a very dry area, wipe the surface with a dry cloth, repeatedly, and then scuff with Scotchbrite and recoat. Epoxy won't really mix with moisture/CO2 and it will generally tend to come out of the finish over a period of days. Help it along by wiping it off repeatedly until it's not there any more.

If it's something else, such as leftover soap, then you might not be able to rid the finish of it and may have to start over.

..................

It's almost got to be a water-based problem. The CP would cover any oils in my experience. The stuff must float on top of the CP and just stay up top or is it discoloring the area before the finish was applied?

Doesn't really sound like a 'fisheye' , though.

I'd do as Tom suggests; has to be something on that order.

Putter
Williston, ND

Are you letting every thing dry? After cleaning, I just rinse in warm to hot water, then hit with a hair dryer to dry well. maybe the CP was not dry before the feather was cleared ??

I thought everything was dry...but I had tried to steam the feather the night before to straighten it, then I put it in a plastic bag in a heavy textbook...so maybe thats it. In my ignorance, I had no idea water could be the culprit. The inlay itself had at least 12 hours to dry.

So, if the goal of washing is to get rid of any oils in the feather (?), but oils won't cause problems, should I bother washing a feather that looks fine? If water and soap can cause problems, why risk it?

Water soap don't cause problems. It's water and soap left in the feathers that cause problems. The natural oils can be even worse. Wash them, rinse them very well and then give the feathers a few days to dry.


..........................

Pat,

All sorts of potential epoxy pollutants in feathers, kind of the nature of the beast.

I'd do all the washing things suggested, this will help.

I mist over the inlay with a quick shot of clear instant dry lacquer.

This really seals the inlay from most any pollutants escaping, allowing a clean neutral surface to lay-on epoxy.

<> Plus nearly eliminates the bubble problem.

Tom ....Curious <> Why not Guderod CP cut with ISO for inlays ?

Guderod has never failed me with literally thousands of feather inlays.

Bob

I didn't say it would cause problems - it's just a bit thicker and will tend to trap bubbles moreso than most of the straight acrylics. If you cut it enough with ISO, then you're not actually putting much sealer on the feathers, you're putting mostly alcohol.

I have used it on some inlays, but I greatly prefer the straight acrylics for feather work.


............

Thanks Tom,

There's really not a wrong way to do an inlay...All a matter of personal choice.

I like to use very thin sealer on my inlays because the "thin as water" solution can flood the individual feather filaments into a more natural state <> Just as feathers come alive on flies when in the water.

... Plus the flooding allows me to easily train the feathers into place exactly where I'll want them, especially if building large complex feather weaves.

This can be done to some degree with some of the milky colored acrylics as well..But for me the milky acrylics can be a burden, as by the time they clear <> The feathers are set.

The Guderod mix is clear right from the spoon, and I can always see exactly whats going on with the inlay with great detail at the point of application.

With this method I can lay out a 20/30 feather inlay/weave in just a coulple of minutes, all exactly where I'll want each feather to be.

Also the ISO Guderod mix will set-up and seal very well in about 20 minutes....Always a point to consider when time is an issue with daily multiple rod assembly in the shop.

The quick lacquer seal really does seem to eliminate contaminant issues from this process, and one less "Murphy" in the shop is always a good thing.

Bob

Thanks for the additional insight, guys. I shall continue to bathe those feathers.

Bob, could you elaborate on the "clear instant lacquer" a bit? Specifically, what brand and what type of store I would purchase it from? This sounds like a worthwhile investment.

Regarding the Gudebrod vs. acrylic CP discussion, does anyone else think the milky-white CP's ever so slightly lighten the color of the underlying thread (which I personally don't want)? I took someone's advice from this forum and made a "color chart" of all the threads I had--with and without Flexcoat CP--on a scrap piece of blank. Then when I started playing with the Gudebrod 811 following Bob's tutorial for feather inlays, I noticed a subtle but definite difference in the thread color with Flexcoat vs. Gudebrod 811.

I always thin out the flexcoat CP a little with water to get rid of the milkyness. Just add a few more coats.

Hi Pat,

Lot of the guys use Krylon clear lacquer for sealing gel pen inscriptions prior to epoxy etc.

I've had good luck with regular old "Ace" Hardware brand exterior grade instant dry lacquer <> Probably because it's a buck less for a bigger can...};^)...!!!

Works just fine.

Bob

I'll have to look for that when my Krylon runs out, Bob. Thanks for the idea, I'd never noticed they made this same product before. Sure like how fast the stuff dries. Amazing; seals things so well...

Putter
Williston, ND

Hi Putter,

I love the stuff...Great for touching up little nicks on blank gloss finishes as well.

I'll probably get grief for this one:

Many of my big two handed sticks will leave the shop with elaborate combination composite cork and wooden lower grips....Especially if I need to use wood to counter the tip weight of the 14' sticks and longer.

Over the past three years I have been using the exterior grade lacquers for finishing these combination grips.

If done correctly, they create an extremely durable~ beautiful finish that is very easy, and quick to do.

<> Either gloss or dull finish ... Depending on how the cured lacquer is final buffed.

The rods do really get worked hard , and tossed about in the field by my anglers, and over the years, I've never gotten back a negative report on this finish failing.

....And if nicked <> Is very easy to mend.

I can send a couple of images off of a couple of rods I'm about to ship off to show this finish....Just need an Addy.

I've never figured out how to post pictures....I fear I'm not real bright in that regards...};^)...!!!

Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I'll send my email addy to you.

Putter
Williston, ND

Thanks guys. Problem solved. I rewashed those feathers in Dawn, made sure they were as dry as the Sahara in a drought year, then did practice inlays with and without the lacquer. Both worked just fine...NO MORE OIL SLICK.