Apologies for this basic question. We placed a large order for multiples of every single spinning REC Recoils but they never came after 2 months so we still have none to test. We'll look to order elsewhere but hope you guys can help with this simple query.

Under tension, how much 'drag' or 'friction' do you feel against the line on spinning REC recoils compared to Fuji SIC or the TItans? We've been using pretty slick guides but today tried a rod with supposedly 'titanium coated' guides but the friction was so noticeable that reeling in some 1/4 oz lures took a bit of effort simply because of the friction against the guides. I was quite surprised.

So, I'm wondering if any could help comment on the Recoils for spinning in terms of friction exerted on the line under light or heavy tension.

Thanks again for this great community.
Mo

I have gotten my Recoils from Angler's Workshop, last order they had all but the #25 spinning still and they were just a few days out. Haven't noticed much difference in performance, but I've only put them so far on dropshot rods so there isn't much tension/friction on the guides unless a fish puts it there.

The SIC are said to be about the best ??Then again they all seem darn good.

A lot of companies coat there guides " noticable friction ????

Who's guides ?? What type of line ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2005 07:44AM by bill boettcher.

I just built a 6 ft 8 with the Recoils, my second with Recoils. I think about the only noticeable friction comes from the tip top, to sharp of a angle for line, due to the small diameter wire. I tried a Fuji SIC Titan top and what a difference even without correct height alignment, so I ordered some American Tackle Fly tops and found they align perfect with the recoil running guides, going to see how the American tackle tip top works today.

Hey, Mo - Sorry I can't conveniently provide some epic tome or avalanche of data for your query. But I can still remember (25 years later) that one of my first lab experiments in undergraduate college physics was measuring the coefficient of static and kinetic friction in a simple system. (In that case, it was for a block sliding down an inclined plane.) And I don't have any REC Recoil guides anyway.

But to measure those coefficients, at least on a relative basis, it could be done in two ways. First, use a single guide as a pulley. String equal weights on each end. Then ADD known weight or tension until the first SLIP occurs. The percentage of extra weight is the coefficient of STATIC friction (mu-s). The percentage of minimum extra weight that will keep it sliding is the coefficient of KINETIC (or DYNAMIC) friction (mu-k). The Kinetic friction is always less than the Static friction (or theoretically, AT MOST, equal to, or possibly very close to the Static coefficient in the best reel drag systems). I think that is why multiple washer systems are used in reel drags, to bring the static and kinetic friction closer together, and to make a "smoother" start-up, and provide better heat dissipation and pressure distributions.

Basically, the second way to measure the coefficient of friction could be to use an array of all the guides intended for use, quick-taped onto the rod blank, in the actual layout you'll use, and repeat the same experiment. This time the bend in the rod may effect the values somewhat, but that experimental artifact actually mimics reality better than the single-guide point-pulley anyway.

I would not use very tiny weights of under an ounce (like 1/16 - 1/8th oz), just because of the variableness of small mold casting, and the resistance to bending from the fishing line itself that can overly add to the friction between the guide ring and the fishing line. I'd use something between 1-2 ounces, up to 6-8 ounces at each end, and see what kind of differences that produces. ... If it's that important to you.

It seems that coefficients of friction tend to range between 5% - 15% for KINETIC friction and 10% - 25% for STATIC friction, for surfaces that are intended to be smooth and slick. Using a slick braid line may reduce the coefficient of friction compared to a monofilament line passing over the same guide ring. Fly line may have the highest coefficient of friction. But line lubes would obviously reduce that.

Setting GOOGLE Search = "COEFFICIENT FRICTION TABLE" yielded a very interesting list of links. Give it a try. (For a Teflon-on-Teflon System, coe.fric. ~ 4%. For surfaces intended to be slick, the coefficient of Static friction is relatively about 5%-10% higher than the Kinetic coefficient. Ex: Mu-s = 0.050 (5.0%) while Mu-k = 0.055 (5.5%). Here the Static friction is 0.005 / 0.050 = 10% higher than the Kinetic.)

Without some numbers, this may just be so much hand-waving. We may have the elephant by the trunk, and he can lift us up, and let us ride on his back. Or we may have him by the tail. And if by the tail, and we keep yanking him around by his tail, we may get "buried" by the "un-loading" of our own ignorance. Ppffffftttt !!!

Interesting question, Mo. Hopefully one that gets swamped out by the joys of getting hits and catching fish, rather than the lonely silence of cranking in the dark and coming up empty. (Been there, done that.) LOL, -Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2005 09:53AM by Cliff Hall.

THANKS to ALL who responded. Cliff, thanks especially for your lengthy technical suggestions.

Rich, are you saying that with the tip top, going from recoils to SIC noticeably reduced the guide friction? If so, what size are you using and what kind of line with lb test? Curious as we are using very small diameter superlines such as Spiderwire etc.

Thanks!
Mo

Mo - You're welcome. Anytime I got the time. -Cliff+++

Mo, you can notice a difference, I think, from the recoil top to a SIC or ceramic tip top, I found that the American Tackle Ceramic HFT6-4 Fly Tip Top lines up great with the recoil size seven running guides. I tested the top yesterday and it work great, hope it hold up though. Hope this helps, Rich.

Mo:
In order to accurately judge the difference, you will have to use the same reel ( it could be what’s causing the drag difference). On the same blank with eyes in the same location. Would suggest wrapping the eyes with out epoxeing them, so that they would be easer to remove, then putting the others in the same location. Making sure that you have kept the drag on the reel the same.