Sometimes there is no justice in the world. I've been reading the posts some of you have made about the lack of funds here at RBO and the ideas on how to remedy that. Tom doesn't seem to want to charge anything and won't accept donations so the site will be slow to load at peak traffic hours.

In Charlotte last year, the manufacturers and dealers gave him a ton of products and prizes for the Rodmaker reception. He gave them all away at no charge. You didn't have to buy anything. Just come in the door and get a door prize ticket and hope your name was called. Everything was GIVEN away.

This site has tons of features and there is no charge to use any of them. Another give away for the good of everyone who wishes to use them.

On the other side of the coin I just learned that a rod building "club' that I was a member of for a very short time says it has $32,000 in cash on hand and says it plans to push that to $40,000 by the end of the year! They charge for anything and everything. The products and prizes donated by companies for their show are not given away, tickets are SOLD and the stuff is raffled off and the money charged for raffle tickets is then used to fatten an already fat bank account.

Am I the only one who sees the difference in philosophy at work here? Or the irony of it all?

You have to know tom to understand-i can't count the value of the free knowledge i've gotten as a beginner since meeting him in the early 90's and just dropping by his shop.It'a always been about the rods, not the money.

This topic seems to keep coming up so I'll respond with a few brief comments and hopefully we can then let it drop once and for all.

I did not set up RodMaker Magazine or Rodbuilding.org to provide me with any income. I did not set either of them up as money making operations. But neither are they registered as non or not-for-profit operations. If a "happy accident" were to occur and I actually turned a few dollars profit, I certainly wouldn't feel any need to apologize. I do a ton of work on these two ventures - I spend probably 60 to 70 hours per week on them. No one forces me to do it, but I do have an obligation at least to those who have paid for a magazine subscription. Once you take someone's money, you're obligated to deliver what you've promised.

I don't make any money on the National Rod Builders Show (I lose money - several thousands of dollars each year). But that's okay - I'm not doing it for the money. If money was the motivation then these are all lousy business ventures and I'd be better off looking in other directions.

This site is in no danger of folding or going offline. It will be here for the foreseeable future and will even see some additional features added later this year. I very much appreciate the offers to help, but would prefer not to charge any fee nor accept any donations. Once you accept money or sell something, you are obligated. I'd prefer not to be obligated. I still work hard at it even though I'm not obligated, but I want to at least feel some amount of freedom that I otherwise could not. My only request is that people here understand that I'm doing all that I can with the limited funds and manpower (me) at my disposal. And I think most people do understand this.

As far as what others charge, how much money they make or what their motive for operation might be, that's their business. If you are a customer or member of something and don't feel you're getting a square deal, you should take it up with the company, club or whoever else is obligated to you. Human nature is a funny thing - most people usually feel they're doing okay until they find out that somebody has more than they do. At that point they cease to be satisfied with what they have and decide they're being shortchanged somehow. I just don't look at things that way. You'd probably be happy if you turned a nice profit or got a raise this year. Why not be happy that someone else is able to do it?

I don't think this site is really the place to discuss the finances of others even if those finances are supposed to be a matter of public record. In fact, it's simply not an appropriate topic for this forum. This forum is operated as a place to exchange rod building information and very closely related topics. I'm having more and more problems lately with people using it for other things.

Now let's get back to rod building. This site is doing okay and will be around for a long time to come. I'll upgrade to a new server as funds become available. Until then, just try to be patient if the pages seem to take a little longer to load. We'll get it sorted out in due course.


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2005 12:08PM by Tom Kirkman.

Thanks Tom, I think you said most of that already but not as concisely in one thread as today.

I can understand and share the reason for concern if we lost the board but also believe Tom is under control of the situation and knows what is best. He knows how to ask for help if he needs it.

I have heard a lot about the speed of the site and am confused. Is it because I am "STILL A DIAL UP GRANDPA" that I dont notice a speed problem? Is it because I am on the west coast and maybe not involved in peak hours? I guess I dont know what fast is. I dont seem to have to wait too long for anything. The thing that takes the longest for me is uploading pictures. The rest seems pretty quick to me. I guess I am just not in that big of a hurry. The Patience I have learned from rod building must be an asset.

Ok back to the cave.

Danny

Like I have said before, he's a nice guy and gives it all away. But that is the way he is.

Photos sent via a dial-up modem usually do take some time. Images are much, much, much larger files than text so they require that additional time to upload. Your system is probably okay, Doc, and you're just experiencing the normal time for uploading images via a dial-up modem.

I've noticed a definite slowdown on the pages here, particularly when I post something. But we're talking seconds, not minutes. Of course, once you get used to a certain speed anything that takes more time, even seconds more, will seem slow by comparison.

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I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers Tom. I just find it ironic that one guy with limited money and manpower manages to give away so much to so many while a group with a big fat bank account that continues to grow does so little for so few. Your points are understood and I'll just keep my opinion that it's a difference in philosophy.

Ya got to figure though - he is worth Millions in the friends he has that are willing to help

Danny,

I didn't take offense to your post. I did consider removing it as it's just a bit outside the bounds of what I like to see here on this site. However, I decided to leave it and respond to it in the hopes that once I had fully addressed the issue, it would stop coming back up every few days.


Bill,

What I choose to give away is my business. I will allow that the one problem with giving stuff away is that over time some people start to believe that they're entitled to it. They're not. I do appreciate your concern and I have no doubt you're only looking out for the best interests of the site. Thanks. Everything will be okay.


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I guess Im in the same boat as Doc. the speed does not matter. Being retired I have no where to go and all day to get there.

SUPPORT THE SPONSORS AND YOU SUPPORT THIS BOARD!
Enough said

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond, you nailed it perfect!!!!! I have been following these threads and there have been some very good comments but it all comes down to "talking with your dollars" Supporting the sponsors IS supporting RBO!!!! I cringe everytime I see a post directing someone to @#$%& or a non sponsor for something that is available from a link to the left! It all sounds good but actions are more convincing!!




Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2005 05:38PM by Mike Barkley.

Want more speed, switch to Mozilla Firefox browser - [www.mozilla.org]
Way better then IE

i'm assuming here of course but it might also help rodbuilding.org if you mentioned (while ordering) that you found the vendor through this site.

eric
fresno, ca.

Everytime that you click on a vendor link to the left, the vendor knows where it comes from. They have the capability to know what site every visitor came from if they came in via a link!

Mike

Not all. Some do not have the type of site that allows them to monitor where the hits are coming from. Some do, but many do not.

On average, most sponsors do receive anywhere from 800 to 1500 direct click-throughs per month. I used to mail out a monthly report showing them just how much traffic they were receiving from this site, but demands on my time made it impossible for me to continue doing it much after the first year.

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Most hosting companies should provide tracking reports and if they do their own sites there's plenty of software available that will do the job

Mike

"Some do not have the type of site that allows them to monitor where the hits are coming from. "

... and i often go straight to a vendor, not through rodbuilding.org.

eric
fresno, ca.

One thing I found is the only one that seems to come up when doing a search for supplies is MudHole. There are several others but not many and not all the searches bring the sponsors up ??
Maybe they should address this ?? I see a lot that I never heard of ??

here is a search I just did on Fishing rod supplies --
[www.google.com]

Most people do not go beyond the first page ???



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2005 07:44AM by bill boettcher.

Searching on Google and searching on this site are two entirely different things.

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