I have noticed that the blanks I bought have an empty barrel at the male ferrule. Do they need to be reinforced? Or is that just a plug to prevent moisture from geting inside?

My thought on this is that it's there to help prevent flattening or crushing. Plugs for support from the inside on the male ferrules, wraps for support on the outside of the female ferrules.

Water wouldn't really hurt anything in there unless it froze.

I always make sure that the male ferrule has a plug in it and the female ferrule has a wrap; I try to position a guide here whenever possible.

Putter
Williston, ND

Hi Jaime,,

I don't think putting much of anything inside the male ferrule will prevent it from breaking if it gets a significant load on it. You could in fact make things worse by putting in a material that may swell after ingress of water. Many materials will absorb water and swell even stuff you would not think, like nylon bushes.


As to external wrapping of female joints I have been pondering on this for a long time now. First of all I believe it's about high time blank makers started to re-inforce their joints with pr-preg. This is much stronger than any thread and high build. We should not have to do this job at all. It adds weight and time to a build, but worse of all it will take some convincing for me that it actually does support the joint.

I have seen several examples of rods and some of them are my own where splitting has occured at the female joint and this on well wrapped and heavy high build laid on top. In every case the blank had a plain taper at the joint area. IE no re-inforcement.

I know many all rod builders like to put a guide on the female joint area. But how can a splint mounted just on one side actually offer much support to the blank. Wrapping joints can have it's own problems to. Over cook the tension and you can actually distort the blank. compramise it's integrity and reduce the id. If you don't believe me take a thin walled fly blank that you don't want and do a strong wrap on the joint checking for how far the male fits before and after.

I confess to still wrapping the female joint on overfit designs and internal spigot, but I remain strongly scepical as to how much they really do to prevent splitting.

I am going to get hammered for this I have probably just uttered words of herasey but I am going to stand by my beliefs. In fact I may build myself a fly rod plain taper and not thread wrap any of the joint and just see what happens.

I bet the rod survives.


I am reaching right now for the bullet proof vest.

Regards

Mike Oliver

Mix up a little epoxy and stick it in the mail end, about 1/8 to 1/4 ". Reinforcement Clean off the end so there is nothing outside to inter fear with it going together.
Thread wrap on the female about 2 times the size of the opening.

For more on this topic see this thread from last year:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Lou

Female ferrules are, in fact, reinforced internally. The practice of an outer thread wrap to help prevent a split-out at the very end is still recommended, however. I'd continue doing it until the manufacturers specify that it is absolutely unneccessary.

It's easier to crush or deform the end of a tube than the center of one. For this reason it's good to have a bit of reinforcement in the end of the male ferrule. A soft rubber or EVA plug is more than good enough. Failing that, mix up a little RodBond and fill the end of the male ferrule with it. Do be careful not to get any on the outside of the ferrule where it may interfere with the fit of the female part.

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The reason I place a guide on a female ferrule has nothing at all to protecting the ferrule by 'splinting' it. I didn't say that. Read my post.

I put them there to avoid adding a bunch more weight to the rod with an extra wrap and finish that does nothing other than protect the ferrule.

Putter
Williston, ND

Randy,

Most post was not aimed at yours, I hope it was aimed at the issues. Your reasoning for placing your guide on the joint as you explained above makes a lot of sense. No offense was meant to you. Some builders do however do this, thinking that they will get increased strength over the joint area.

I just wish that more blank makers would improve this area of the blank. It should not in my opinion need wrapping with thread.
I wonder how much additional hoop strength we get by doing it. As I said I do it myself but still question the efficency of it.. Imagine for a moment pre-preg made from warp and weft fibres of "A" size thread and then inpregnated with the best epoxy lay ups it would not make for a very strong rod blank, and that's all I am trying to say here.

Regards

Mike Oliver

Mike,

They are already internally reinforced. Much in the manner you speak of.

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That is a lot of good information guys. Thanks a lot to every one. I did make a search for this subject before asking but did not figure it was under the heading of "blank plug". If I had known I would not have asked. But I am glad I did because a few more things came up. If nothing else make me more aware of why I am doing certain things.

For instance, the mentioning of the guides pinching on the blank got me thinking if its wise to mount the single legged guides with the rings facing forward (like most people do). Physics was my major in college so I get to use it now and then. With the rings facing the end of the rod (this is referring the bait casting rods), when fighting a fish, the most stress on the blank would be the point where the leg bends up. But if the guide were turned around to face the butt, then the force distribution would be more even through the whole leg. It may not make much difference at all, but I would think once in a blue moon it might.

Again, I thank all of you for your valuable contributions. To tell you the truth I did not expect to have such prompt answers in the week end. I figure every one would be out catching fish. LOL!

The greatest stress on the blank will be roughly halfway between any pair of guides. This is the danger of using too few guides - that the line will force the blank into a sharper bend or flex between a pair of guides and cause failure.

Try it for yourself (but don't break your blank), take two identical blanks and on one just about 3 or 4 guides and tip. On the other put the full compliment of guides that you'd normally use. Now string them both up and load them. The one with very few guides will take a much sharper bend - even flexing the blank well past 90 degrees near the tip.

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Thanks Tom for the tip. That's an interesting thought and I will check it out. I will try using a single blank. A 10.5' 7weight fly blank. Instead of quides, I will tie the line in with a few wraps. First with 11 points and then cutting off every other point. At the end of the line will be a 3 oz sinker.

Thank you again.

Jaime Choy

Tom, I did the experiment a few minutes ago. And in doing so, found that this setup is fairly good for identifying where to put the guides on any given rod. By using loosely held wraps I was able to simulate the positions of the guides and optimize it to the blank.

Anyway, you were right about the rod giving flexing more with fewer guides. However the difference was very slight. This was my setup:

!.- A rod holder held the blank at about a 45-degree incline.
2.- Bait casting reel was installed and the line ran through a series of loosely tied thread loops.
3.- I adjusted the thread loops to simulate an optimal guide configuration. Inserting 11 of them plus a tiptop.
4.- At the end of the monofilament was a 6 oz lead weight that hung freely to serve as a load.

The measurement was the height of the tiptop to ground level. As it turned out, the height difference between having 12 points of contact and 6 points of contact was minute. I estimate it to be about .05". But I did not repeat the experiment to verify, so it could well be measurement error.