Guys,
I'm ready to throw my rod building equipment out the window. The last two flyrods I have built have been absolutely beautiful until I epoxy over the label area. All my wraps and the epoxy over them turn out great, no waves, clear and smooth.

When I get to the label area, the space between the hook keeper and the wrap on the outside of the label, my epoxy always turns wavy. If I try to put on small amounts of epoxy there seem to be areas that the epoxy doesn't completely cover. I've tried putting a ton on and then scraping the excess off from the bottom of the rod but i still get the waves.

I've been applying the epoxy, LS Supreme 2-coats, with a spatula while the rod is turning at 12 rpm. Is there a fool proof way of coating this area so it's smooth???? Is there a video out there that shows the technique? I can't fathom how the production guys turn out perfect rods in seconds. PLEASE HELP!!!
Steve

My personal experiences with LS Supreme were the same. For me, better results were obtained with other epoxies. Others, though, enjoy working with LS Supreme.

Jeff

Steve; Three things you might try. 1. Depending on the type of label you are using you might try covering it with Color Preserver before you put on the finish. Be sure to let the CP dry. 2. You may be getting too much finish piled up in that area in an attempt to get it to cover. So watch for the drip and remove the excess. 3. Try turning the rod by hand for at least the first hour to hour and a half and watch for any sags while the finish is still liquid enough to move and remove them.

Many of the waves are caused by a sag or drip running around a rod being turned by a drying motor where it's not noticed until it's dry.

What Jim said!! I use LS Supreme and I always turn by hand for at least an hour and a half (Turn 180 degrees when it starts to sag) Personally, I think that the biggest cause of problems is to much epoxy. I put just enough to completely cover the area and let it do it's stuff.

Are you using regular or Hi Build?

Mike

Hi Steve,
After you have gotten the epoxy as smooth as you can, try very carefully using a heat gun, / hair dryer , set on low. Go back & forth, as its turning, to smooth it out, but watch it carefully as you do it, and not to close. Might try on another blank to get used to how the heat affects your epoxy.

Dave von Doehren
PRRODS......If man built it , man can fix it.and if man built it man can break it !

Be VERY careful with heat and LS Supreme. To much and it will boil into a giant bubble mass (don't even ask how I know!) That's why the manufacturer says to not apply any heat to it

Steve,

I have experienced similar problems. Having worked in the chemical industry inwhich we were coating various substrats, I called my friend who was a coating engineer (We were all in R &D) He made several recommendations. I have applied these to rod building.

1. Note item #2 in Jim Upton's recommendation. I remove excess epoxy with a "Mike Barkley Doctor Knife" . AKA known as one of these free plastic credit that come in junk mail, cut into strips, scrap off the excess. (Anyone which coating experience knows what a Doctor Knife is)

2. Lower the viscosity. I have gone to lite build epoxy. This may require several coats. You can also lower the viscosity by adding a few drops of denatured alcohol. (as a last resort) Thin multiple coats will solve this problem.

3. Turning your rod with a higher speed drying motor. I use a 12 rpm for this purpose. I have done several experiements with motor speed, Including slinging finish all over the place, but I would stay under 40 rpm.

4. Use the heat gun as a last resort to lower the viscosity. It may cause more problems than you bargined for. (Dust, boiling finish, etc.)

I have learn so may new techniques from this site. I agree with all the above recommendations.

Ed Smith

cut your fake plastic credit card the actual width of the area you will cover. apply epoxy evenly accross the surface of the card. now apply the epoxy to the bottom of the rod while hand turning the rod so the bottom is turning away from you and pulling the epoxy off the card. turn the rod several times with the card in contact with the epoxy . this should smooth it out and eliminate waves.

Playing cards are great! You get 52 "leveler/spatulas" for a buck. I cut one the length of the wrap and with the rod turning, I hold it lightly against the finish which evenly distribute the finish and give you a nice smooth finish

Mike

I love LS Supreme. It's my favorite finish.
Be sure to use it fresh after your mix, as in, don't let it thicken too much.
Put it on with rod turning in lengthwise swipes.
Use a big, high quality brush.
Never actually touch the bristles to the rod surface. Just use the brush to convey the epoxy.
Use an alcohol torch (91% isopropyl with the squeeze type of torch) to heat up the epoxy after you spread pretty evenly.
This will liquify the epoxy and help it to level itself (it does this beautifully). Go easy with the heat.
Don't leave dry spots. Dap low spots in the epoxy with a drop from the end of your brush.
Watch it level as you apply heat. Remember go EASY on the heat. Just little blasts from the torch will do.
You can also target and blast individual bubbles with the torch and dig out dust flecks with a clean safety pin.
After you heat it a little relax and just watch it turn.
I apply finish and dry using 4-6 RPM turning motors.
Email me if you need more ideas.

Josh Markvan
www.markvanheirloom.com

Dura Gloss RECOMMENDS that no heat is used to burst bubbles, but (I am quoting from enclosed instructions), "If you insist on using heat, use it very sparingly".

I use two thin applications, applying heat from a propane torch only after the 2nd coat.

Though the instructions state that Hardender must never be heated I have done so by nuking the bottles in a microwave for 10-15 sec hundreds and hundreds of times with no ill effect.

For surface tension over decals I wait until the finish has setup good and thick then apply it over the offending areas. Thick finish does not bead up like thin finish does.

I do all my finishing by rotating the rod by hand, then place the rod with fresh finish in a drying machine to cure. Only when the finish is thin do I have any problems with beading, fisheyes, and "wavyness" over the decal areas. If it beads I apply another coat of THICK finish.

Lou

Steve,

That butt wrap is always the most difficult for me to get smooth. I've learned to do....

1. Make it as short as possible. The longer the wrap the more likely the epoxy gets wavy...for me anyway.

2. If it does get waves....sand as smooth as possible with a fine grit sandpaper...and reapply over it.

3. I think a cur up credit card works much better on these wraps than a brush (well..on any wrap)...but when I use a brush I get much better result if I stroke up and down (lengthwise) the rod...rather than just holding the brush to the rotating rod. Dont have to do that with the credit card, though...never tried to figure out why.

Maybe that will help you, too.

Keith

although i haven't worked with large areas i was also going to suggest the cut-credit-card-at-the-length-of-the-epoxy-area suggestion. i might also add to insure your rod is level before starting to finish the wraps.

eric
fresno,.ca.

Mike,aren`t you concerned with there being silicone in the coating of the playing cards??They are quite slick.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

And I thought it was just me!
I have had all sorts of problems with this. I have found what works for me is to brush it on lengthways VERY sparingly using a good quality bristle brush, ensuring complete cover but no more. 2 or 3 coats may be necessary.
Dave

Fred,

I THINK that the coating is plastic, but I'm not sure. I have been using the playing cards for over a year (first heard about it on this site) and have had no problems with it. I admit that I have had more than my share of wavy finishes, but can honestly say that I have never personally seen a "fish eye" or finish contamination (Knock on wood)

Mike

if you are not " force drying " it, I am surpriced it does not flow well. I find LS to flow better then most cause of it's longer setting time. Letting each coat dry at least overnight ?

THANKS MUCH!!! My equipment is safe until the next disaster. I'm going to give the bush idea a go. Length ways application is something i have not tried. Stand by for further updates and maybe a sale of a drying set up!!
Steve

Cheap ????

I hate to get into this because I have huge problems with wavey epoxy on the butt wrap too. Particularly with LS. But I am gaining on it. One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet is that the rod does have to be very close to level. Takes that stuff a long time to cure and a bit of finish hanging under the rod is going to run sideways as well as down if the rod is not level.