With the butt guide at 0 deg. and the bumper guide at 90 deg. and the following guide at 180 deg. the line leads to one edge of the reel spool. Is there any advantage of offsetting the butt guide so that the line leads to the center of the reel or would that defeat the purpose of the bumper system? Thanks

You might want to make sure its not the paw on the reel. some times they hang for a second at one end or the other. usually because of wear. But some times defective from factory. I have many spiral wrapped rods, and have never had that problrem. Personally if it is the rod, I don't think it would hurt to offset th bumper guide a bit to correct it. It may how ever create a little more friction when the line is at the opposet dirrection on the spool and resrict your casting distence a tad.

Morgan - If a little offsetting of the guides from the prescribed 0, 90, 180 degree positions helps to distribute the line on the reel more evenly, AND if the guides can be placed so that the line is off the rod blank, AND so that there is a relatively straight and unkinked line path from the reel to the bottom guide at 180 degrees, while passing thru the "bumper" guide, then you have preserved, not defeated, the purpose of the bumper spiral wrap system. IMO, ...-Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL-USA+++

P.S. - There may be some slight increase in the lever arm of the torque force in the bumper guide if it is far removed from the 90 degrees position, because the line under load may not sit exactly at the 9 o'clock position, which is where the line pushes the guide ring directly perpendicularly into the rod blank. (Hold the rod as you would while fishing, and view from the perspective of the reel.) As long as the line is contacting the guide ring between the 8 to 10 o'clock position (per the original orientation of the guide ring at the 90 degree compass position)**, things should be fine. People were using other compass positions for their line guides in spiral layouts long before the Bumper System was articulated, and having the fishing line under load touch the guide ring at more severe lever arms than these clock positions and not having any serious regrets to balk about. IMO, -CMH+++

** If this is confusing, just envision a casting guide, ring upright sitting on top of the blank or on top of your bench-top. The rod blank now is at the 6 o'clock position. The loaded fishing line has a virtual ZERO moment or ZERO lever arm when it touches the guide ring at this 6 o'clock position. A loaded fishing line can only cut straight down into the rod blank, as if trying to slice thru it like a banana split, in the plane of symmetry. This ZERO torque condition is just pure physics and geometry, and is not some hocus-pocus. As the line moves to the extreme right, toward this 3 o'clock position, OR as the line moves toward the extreme left, toward this 9 o'clock, THEN it reaches its maximum value for a lever (multiplier of force).

[If the force is small to begin with, even this maximal lever arm won't be a problem. You don't have to guess or calculate what the magnitude of that force is. You can stick your finger there and feel it for yourself. Chances are it is slight.]

If the loaded fishing line is touching the guide ring in the range of these 5 o'clock to 7 o'clock positions, then it still is at virtually a ZERO lever arm effect. Only as the point of contact of the line with the guide ring approaches the 4 o'clock position or the 8 o'clock position (from the 6 o'clock position) do you get a rapidly increasing and "slippery-slope" progression to the maximum lever arms at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock. If you mount your Bumper guide on the right side of the rod blank, then the line should touch the quadrant of the guide ring which is between 7 o'clock and 4 o'clock positions (as viewed from this original bench-top / rod-top labeling of the guide ring). The guide will be at 90 degrees in the normal position, and offset by as much as ~ 15 degrees, to 105 degrees in some extreme situation. Just 5 degrees is one thing; 15 degrees would be pushing it. Any more extreme than that, and it would begin to defeat the benefits and purpose of the Bumper System. Some parts of your deviations from the original Bumper System (the compass position of the bumper guide, and the location of the bumper guide itself between the reel and the rod-tip when the rod is casting or loaded) would need to be restored to the default parameters, and any variations would need to be "re-thunk". IMO, CMH.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2005 10:12AM by Cliff Hall.

You would not want to offset the bumper guide at all, but as Cliff stated you can offset the butt guide a bit, if you wish. However, unless the line is stacking unevenly to one side of the reel, there would be no reason to do this. The Forhan Revolver Rod features a butt guide that offset by enough to keep the on coming line itself on the 0 axis primarily due to the nature of some hard running plugs causing the line to stack to one side of the spool on the retrieve.

As far as the bumper guide goes, if you place it correctly and in conjuction with the other guides, it would be rare indeed for the line to ever contact it anywhere other that at the 9 o'clock position. One thing I have seen from a few builders, is that they are trying to employ the bumper guide as part of their overall guide spacing. Once you do that you no longer have a Simple Spiral Bumper Wrap - you have a 90 degree transition guide spiral and that 90 degree guide is going to have the line contact it in places other than at the 9 o'clock position. I don't like 90 degree transition guides for that very reason - too much force against the guide in the wrong place.


.........................

Thank you for your resposes, Mr. Hall and Mr. Kirkman. The problem I am encountering is line stacking on one side of the reel spool. I primarily use non level wind reels so it makes kind of an awkward retrieve trying to pull the line to the left all the time. Putting the bumper guide on the other side would make it so the line had to be pushed over, possibly a more natural motion but that would put the reel handle on the right and the bumper guide on the left. I'll go see how much of a butt guide offset would be necessary. Thanks

That's fine if it imakes it easier for you.

...........

HI MORGAN

All my conventional reel rods ( reel on top ) are spiral-bumper wrap ( except roller guide rods) 0-90-180
FW Bass rods work great with level wind reels, lite weight SW with level wind reel .
Now all my big stuff , big fish offshore , you need to pull and push the line anyway to have the line wind on evenly across spool, so I don't understand your fishing technique/ problem ?

Dave von Doehren
PRRODS......If man built it , man can fix it.and if man built it man can break it !

Morgan - If putting the bumper guide on the left side of the rod works for you, try it that way. Other rod-builders using a right-handled reel with no level wind have said the same thing: That they find it easier to push the line to the right with their left thumb than to pull it back to the left when retrieving line. With the bumper guide on the left side, the line should be inclined to start out on the left side of the reel, and that should cooperate better with your style for working the rod and reel. Since the bumper guide is relatively small and low-framed anyway, it may not stick out off the rod that much anyway. Tape the guides up that way and see how much you like it. Unless you plan on having to lay the rod down on its left side for some reason, the bumper guide is no more vulnerable to impact on the left side than on the right side, IMO. LOL, -Cliff Hall+++