Tom did you say that using color preserver would result in loss of 10% adhesion on guide wraps? Is 10% enough to hurt anything?

No, I never said that. What I said was that wraps made with CP were only about 10% weaker in lateral guide holding power than those made without CP. I said nothing about adhesion, which isn't much of a factor anyway. To say that a guide wrap made with CP can be manually removed from the rod easier than one made without CP isn't really saying much about practical applications with regard to actual fishing situations.

If you make up about 100 samples (50 would be the minimum you'd want for any good data reporting) of guide wraps, half with and half without color preserver. And then you load the guides laterally to find the load at which each guide will break loose from the wrap, you will find a difference between the two of about 10% (11% was the average we found in our tests). In every case, however, the guide itself would deform long before it would break loose under the wrap. I could not test every type and height guide, but you could do it yourself if you were extremely interested in this subject. I feel safe in saying that either with or without CP, a good wrap of nylon thread provides more than enough strength to any guide used for fishing purposes, for what that guide is intended to do.

It is important, however, to get something, anything - CP, varnish, finish, etc., along the edge of the guide foot next to the blank. Guides do not like to sit on a round surface and can shift or move if they are on top on the rod and are heavily loaded. By getting CP or finish into the tunnel between guide leg and blank, you tend to create a small "flat" or "shoulder" along the edge of the foot and this greatly aids in making the guide more stable. In fact, on guide wraps where we did not create this "shoulder" we found that the ability of a guide to withstand a lateral load without moving or shifting was about 70% less than those where CP or finish were used to make that shoulder. That's a significant difference and one that does have practical ramifications in actual fishing situations.

The thread holds the guide to the blank. The CP and/or finish protect the thread. Strength comes from the thread. Stability comes from the thread and that little shoulder or flat I spoke about. The coating on the thread simply protects the thread so it can do its job for a long, long time.

If you're concerned about all this, I suggest you build two identical rods for the type fishing you do. Make one with and one without CP. Fish them hard for several seasons and see how the guides and wraps hold up for you.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2005 09:32AM by Tom Kirkman.

Okay thanks. I just didn't want my guides tearing out or coming off from what I have heard some rod builders say. I want to do it correctly.

Neither way is correct nor incorrect. Just different ways to do it. Both work.

Ultimately, whether you use it or not is up to you and doesn't really affect anyone else. But I do hate to see anyone scared off from using CP because of reports that it'll make their wraps "weak." It won't. Wraps made with CP are not inherently weak nor are they prone to fail in actual fishing situations. If such a wrap does fail, it's usually due to something other than the use of CP.


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For a comparison of guide-wraps (relative, calculated), see "Gudebrod Thread Table: Strength & Weight of Guide Wraps for Size 2/0 - E" [KEYWORDS: GUDEBROD; THREAD; Strength; Weight]. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Table of Wrap Strength & Wrap Weight per 1 cm Width of Guide Wrap around a 1 cm circumference section of rod blank (OD = 3.18 mm) for selected popular Styles & Sizes of Gudebrod Rod-Building Thread. (Calculated values, not direct "in-situ" measurements) -Cliff Hall +++

I don't think thread strength is an issue or a problem. At least I hope not. I've used A sized thread on plenty of rods and taken large fish on them and the wraps have never been damaged. I've never had a guide tear through any wrap, color preserver or not. I don't think you can tear one through a wrap without damaging the blank.

I have seen very very very old rods where the thread had rotted and you could tear or bust those wraps with some effort. I would assume that modern nylon thread lasts a very long time?

On single foot guides use the Forhan Wrap to insure it is strong.
The thread holds the guide on CP holds the color

I'm with Bill on the Forhan wrap! I put it on EVERY single foot guide (even ultra lights) It is also a very good selling point when you explain the purpose and throw in that NO maufacturer's use it!

Mike

Mike - you think like I do