Looking for advice on how best to get finish into those nasty little tunnels between the guide wrap and blank. My current approach in inadequate as the size 6 and 7 guides will come loose from time to time.

Thanks in advance.

If you use Nylon thread & no color preserver, it will fill teh tunnel automatically. Even with this, I've had a few single foot guides come loose, and pop out - popping out can be taken care of, for the most part with a locking wrap described in teh Glossary complete with pictures. HAving them get banged around and come loose - the only cure I found is to prevent the rod from being banged around in transport. At least for me that's when th emost damage is done - throwing 10 rods in teh truck, getting to teh boat, and shaking them to get them unstuck is definately a good way to mess up the single foot guides.

A rounded toothpick works well for me.

As Art, I too use a toothpick, but one thing I have found to work for me is to fill the tunnels prior to coating the wraps. After mixing the finish I take my toothpick and add small amounts to the ends of the tunnels. I start at the butt guide and work my way to the top. Once all the tunnels have been filled, you will find that most of the finish has been wicked into the tunnels. I then go back and repeat the application until the tunnels no longer continue to wick.

I do this prior to coating the wraps, because it works best while the finish is thin and has not had time to set.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

No Color Preserver Technique: The tunnel will be filled with finish if you start on the end of the guide and work toward the ring. Allow a few seconds on the first coat for the finish to "soak" into the thread before making the close of the finish application at the ring end of the guide. If you watch very carefully your will see the outline of the thread appear which means that the finish is soaking in and wicking to fill the tunnel. If attempts are made to fill the tunnel first you may stop up the air release path and cause air to be trapped under the guide frame which can cause problems with air bubbles working their way out as the finish cures. If the tunnel is blocked for air release it also means that finish can not penetrate and fill the tunnel due to the back pressure. If you apply light coats of finish you may have to dot the end of the tunnel on the second coat with a dental pick or toothpick.

Gon Fishn

Bill Stevens Wrote:
> If you apply light coats of finish you may have to dot the end of the tunnel on the second coat with a
> dental pick or toothpick.
>
> Gon Fishn

Or just slop it on and get epoxy all up the frame to the guide ring? lol.

Keith. The solution is really easy: don't leave a tunnel. Put 3 or 4 blocking wraps ahead of the foot. I do this on double foot guides too, although you have to cut the thread and pass it through the guide. Much neater finish overall.

No need for tools or extra thread. It is all a matter of technique - do as Bill suggested, start at the end of the guide foot and using a thin coat work towards the guide ring being careful NOT to put any finish over the tunnel opening. Turn the rod guides down and let it set for 5-10 min. Through wicking action the finish will fill the tunnel in the same direction you applied the finish and expel all air.

Also, doing the guide wraps 1st with the finish as liquid as possible helps in penetrating the thread quickly. Do the fancy wrap last. So do not delay, apply finish to guide wraps asap after mixing.

Turn rod guide up and let set for 5-10. Remove any excess wanting to form blobs or drips. Let cure. Apply 2nd coat 24hrs later.

Lou

Uh, maybe the blocking wraps or locking wraps or whatever block teh tunnel, but that doesnt' mean there isn't air in there. I guess you can call that a cavern instead of a tunnel. Regardless, I'd think you want that filled with epoxy.

Billy. You got a point about creating a cavern of sorts, but I am not sure that it needs to be filled to add strength or whether you are merely adding weight. I have noticed some blotches with CP along the guide foot, but that is another problem. Any thoughts Tom K.?

All the advice above deals with applying the finish without the use of CP. If you use CP, then your going to have a difficult time with working it through the threads.

Don, IMHO, blotches are cause by gaps inbetween the threads and not CP.

Regards......Doug@
TCRds

When you get finish or CP into that tunnel area, you create a sort of a "shoulder" for the guide foot to rest against. This, more than anthing else, is what prevents a guide from loosening or shifting under the wrap under load and over time.

In the tests I did for the RodMaker article on CP, I was quite surprised to find that with guides in wraps where the tunnel was filled and this "shoulder" created, you could apply roughly 3 times the lateral load without any guide shift or movement as you could to those guide wraps where you had just applied CP/epoxy or even just epoxy to the guide wraps with an unfilled tunnel.

..........................

Adding extra weight - lol. You add extra weight with the locking wraps as well. A teeny weeny bead of finish alongside the guide foot is not going to add any weight to the point where it will make a hill of beans difference. Nor will 6 turns of thread.

Tom - is there any appreciable difference in lateral strength based on whether or not the guide tunnel is filled with CP vs. filled with Epoxy??

If you want to get good penetration with your initial coat you can make it with Permagloss prior to applying epoxy.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Stan. Klass Kote epoxy paint penetrates well and is very hard when dry. Save your lungs! Billy - I was thinking more of stripping guides and the gap those feet create. I tend to agree that thread and finish don't weigh much as compared with the weight savings you get as between stainless and titanium. And with a 4 weight (tip), I can't tell any difference in the relative weight of the guides either. What does concern me is that darker color along side the guide foot I get with lighter color threads treated with CP.

OK, that's better. That darker color is one of the reasons why I won't use CP on guides anymore. Regardless of what people say, CP does not retain the color 100% - if you wrap white Nylon with CP over a white blank, and over a black blank - you'll end up with 2 shades of white.

Thanks everyone! Air entrapment is something I never even considered. I can see where it can become an issue with the routine I've used lately.

One additional question though, if anyone wants to answer; When applying finish in the direction suggested by Bill or Lou, is it helpful to put down pressure with the brush onto the guide wrap? Kind of drive the epoxy into the tunnel/cavern.

Thanks again.
Keith Fischer

The epoxy will soak in without pressure. Once you heat teh epoxy up (if you do that), I don't think it matters what direction you apply the epoxy, it thins, soaks completely though, and all bubbles are removed.