Once again I must show my ____________? I do not do many rods and am really confused. I have used LS for 2 years now and ran into millions of bubbles the last use(Yesterday). Finally on the label I added hair dryer heat and finally did the job. After hand mixing I waited about45 minutes and still had many, many very small bubbles, so I let the hair dryer finish to the normal bubble free finish I expect and always get. Any ideas?

Hey Clyde,
I have not used LS rod finnish but bubbles are a common problem with all epoxy rod finnishing products.
A couple of things I do to minimize bubbles is to mix slowly then pour the epoxy onto a flat surface like tin
foil. ( the flat surface spreds it out and allows the bubbles to rise and pop) After applying the finnish I look
very closely for remaining bubbles and apply heat (quickly and sparingly ) with a lighter or propane torch
to pop them. Doc Ski uses a straw and blows on the wrapps to pop bubbles in the finnish. He shows this
in his video. I recommend getting it. The library and FAQ sections of this board can give you more info as
well.
Question: You said.."normal bubble free finish I expect and always get"
Are you asking for help with bubbles or passing on your "hair dryer" method for removing them
to other builders on the board ?

Clear Wrapps,


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Like Raymond says, let the bubbles escape while on the foil before putting on the rod. LS is the best for releasing bubbles on it's own. If you are getting "millions" of bubbles, you might want to take a close look at you mixing/application technique.

The only time that I have ever seen "millions" of bubble is when to much heat was applied and the finish literally "boiled". LS strongly recommends that no heat be used with their finish. I sometimes use a heat gun for 2 or 3 seconds (constantly moving and not very close) to help flow finish. Be careful with open flame and put it on the side and not under the wrap to avoid soot contamination. Be aware that hair dryers move a lot of air, dust, etc. that can be introduced to your finish and adversely affect the finish. I would recommend Doc's method or simply poking them with a toothpick

Mike

Hi
I use the barrel from a ball point pen with the refill removed to blow gently. Works for me.
Dave Olley
Scotland

I've heated LS Supreme with a Propane torch, to teh point where metallic threads burned before the epoxy caught on fire. I'm not recommending this, as the label CLEARLY says not to add heat.

With the LS products, heat will create bubbles, not dissapate them. A mechanical mixer will provide you with a completely bubble free mix. Failing that, stirring very slowly will greatly reduce the number of bubbles you have. The high build LS Supreme is rather thick, so the tendency among many is to stir faster. But that will create more bubbles. So stir, blend, fold, slowly, if you have to do this manually. LS has a very long pot life so you can pour it out onto a flat piece of foil and let it stand for 5 minutes or so, during which time most bubbles should rise and release on their own.

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"It is not recommended to use heat for bursting bubbles". This is straight from the instructions that came with the bottles of LS. But this is not the whole story....

Not mentioned in any of the above posts, and also direct from the same instruction sheet: "If you insist on using heat, use it sparinlgly".

Also not mentioned in the above posts, and only implied in the instruction sheet - the instructions are for the application of a SINGLE coat of rod finish.

Thus, let me start out by saying that bubbles in the finish, in the cup, are not the problem. The bubbles in the finish ON THE ROD are.

If you apply a very thin 1st coat of finish, so thin that little to no pooling of finish occurs over the thread surface, few or no bubbles will be captured since it is impossible to capture a bubble where no finish surface (pooling) exists. In contrast, if you apply finish in a single thick layer this is going to provide for a way to capture bubbles, if not right away then soon after as the finish begans to thicken. Applying heat to this thick layer will cause any air in the thread to expand and form bubbles - a bad thing to do if you want a clear finish. Applying heat to a very thin layer of finish would cause this same air to come to the surface of the thread and be released since no surface tension exists. This is a good thing.

Thus you should strive to apply a 1st thin coat to begin with, then follow up with another heavier coat 24 hrs later. This 1st coat is sealing coat, that seals in the thread. Once this coat is cured a 2nd coat is applied. This second coat is the one that will form the thick "shiny" layer of finish that the 1st coat did not have.

I have always use heat from a propane torch to burst air bubbles in LS. The propane is quick, precise, controlled easily, and clean and soot free - but most importantly is does not moved ALOT of air like a hair dryer does. If when applying heat the thread is burning, or the finish smoking, bubbling and discoloring, then you're using heat incorrectly - you're applying too much. The application of heat from a propane torch should be very brief. Example: light the propane torch and set to a med heat setting, and holding the torch in your right hand briefly pass the flame over your left hand quickly so that is does not burn you. This is the correct amount of heat to apply to your valuable rod and thread work. If you slow the passing of the flame over your hand too much the heat gets a little uncomfortable doesn't it? Yet this breif application of uncomforatble heat to your hand is still less heat than what it takes to burn thread or finish requires. So go easy on it.

Lou

I have used LS supreme high build since first day building rods. The thing I found that made the most bubbles is when mixing in those little plastic cups with the measurements on the inside of the cup, they would work well if the measurement lines where on the outside of the cup, creating a smooth surface inside, throw away those cups if you use them. I only mix a half cc of hardener and epoxy each with syringes, I found that the bottom of a pop can works great for mixing, I use a spatula to mix in the concaved area of a pop can, I crush the can and clean the bottom first, then slowly mix, if you swirl the can the little bubbles will pop on there own, let sit a couple minutes, swirl a little more, should be no bubbles. Also I found the thicker the brush the more air can be trapped and applied to guide wrap accidentally, I use the small disposable brushes and never have bubbles with them. Hope this helps, have a great day.

I use those cups all the time, even with LS I don't have any problems.
It's not the cups??

Hi Bill, I guess it is just my preference, I do not like those cups, if they where smooth on the inside they would be great, I just do not like the rough edges on the measurement marks, underside of pop can and never a bubble, free too. Have a great day, Rich.

If it works for you - go for it. I just started to use LS again. I find it seems best to mix slow, put it on -- and leave it alone.

The reason that heat creates bubbles in LS Supreme, is because the hardener used has a lower boiling point than hardeners used in other epoxy finishes. I believe the boiling point is only about 160F, but Ralph or Joe Kassuba could give you the actual number.

.................

I'm with Rich on this one; I quit using the cups with LS supreme. I simply measure out the desired quantity of parts A&B on a sheet of foil. I have a long thin spatula that I use to gently but thoroughly roll the 2 parts together. After it's thoroughly mixed, I spread it out very thin and then leave it alone for about 10 minutes. Generally, the bubbles are completely gone and you can begin the application. If there are a few, you can remove them by gently blowing on the surface.

I switched to LS a couple of years ago based on what I saw at a demo in Charlotte done by Joe Kassuba. Joe, by the way, was quite emphatic in his presentation about the avoidance of heat to break bubbles and offered up what Tom has mentioned here - heat on LS Supreme will make your bubble trouble worsen. Joe actually uses a small mixing cup and pours his mixture out on a pane of glass on ceramixc tile and then spreads it thin and waits for any bubbles to work their way to the surface. I was so impressed with the ease of application, bubble free finish and clean-up (denatured alcohol) that I switched and have continued to use it ever since.

I didn't mean for this reply to be an endorsement of the LS products, it's just that I've rarely seen many bubbles when I've followed Joe's method. My bet is that there's something else at work that created the bubble problem.

I'm with Rich and Sam. I have a bunch of the little cups with printing on the inside but quit using them due to the raised printing on the inside.
I've been using 30 ml (1 oz.) condiment cups and like them better than the ones mentioned above. Even so, the condiment cups have three little protrusions on the bottom that I wish weren't there. By the way, the condiment cups were found at a Party Store, 50 to a pack.

If I recall correctly, someone posted that condiment cups were also available at Sam's Club.

Stan

I have used them with several different types of finishies and never had a problems at any time

I haven't quite figured out what the raised lettering has to do with anything. Can someone explain this??

Mike

I supposed it might have to do wth making it hard to completely and cleanly scrape the inside of the cup, although this is more of a problem with cups with a "waffled" interior. I've been using the small plastic mix cups, complete with raised lettering, for 30 years now. They've worked fine so far.

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I use a spatula and an epoxy mixer. It was my perception that the raised letters generated more bubbles in the original mix. With LS, however, most bubbles seem to dissipate after 5 minutes or so while sitting on the aluminum foil.

One thing I have noticed with the epoxy mixer and using LS Supreme Hi-Build (my favorite) is almost no sized ball-bearing will result in a good mix. Therefore I use a large stainless steel ball from an old beer barrel combined with the spatula and mixer and let the mixer rotate for 4 minutes.

Stan

I use a spatula and an epoxy mixer. It was my perception that the raised letters generated more bubbles in the original mix. With LS, however, most bubbles seem to dissipate after 5 minutes or so while sitting on the aluminum foil.

One thing I have noticed with the epoxy mixer and using LS Supreme Hi-Build (my favorite) is almost no sized ball-bearing will result in a good mix. Therefore I use a large stainless steel ball from an old 5 gallon soda cannister combined with the spatula and mixer and let the mixer rotate for 4 minutes.

Stan

Right - the LS high build is just too thick for a single 3/8th BB - it'll just carry the BB around with it. I went to two 1/2 inch ball bearings and this seems to do the trick.

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