I've been building grouper rods with some Gator Glass Blanks (T80XH). the guides I am using are the Fuji single foot boat guides. I've been putting underwraps under all guides to provide a cushion for the foot of the guide so it does not damage the blank. Is this necessary on such a heavy blank or am I just wasting my time with the underwrap??? Thanks ahead of time.

Scott

You're not protecting the blank with an underwrap - thread doesn't have the ability to that. But you're not hurting anything either. Any extra weight on something that beefy won't really be noticed.

Guides that are properly prepped and sit flat on the blank won't harm the blank in any way. And those that aren't properly prepped, have burrs or sharp edges and that don't sit flat, can damage a blank underwrap or not.

...........

Thanks for the info on prepping guides, Tom. But how are you not protecting the blank with an underwrap? It makes sense that if there happened to be a burr or sharp edge that the thread would protect the blank, is this not true???

Scott

A burr or sharp edge that would damage a blank would easily cut through the thread and into the blank anyway. Thread isn't hard enough to keep such a thing from penetrating. Your best bet? Don't leavy burrs or sharp edges on your guide feet undersides.


............

I have read in a few books that underwraps can protect the blank. I also read that on larger saltwater rod and underwrap plus two over wraps will add stiffness to the blank so that the large roller guide will not flex as much. Is this true?

No, you won't stiffen a blank by adding guides or wraps - you'll soften it. Any weight you add must be carried by the blank, which in effect softens it and makes it less responsive.

Due to an argument I once had with a local builder, we decided to wrap a rod blank end to end with very stiff, braced, steel guides. His contention was that the blank would become very stiff and powerful with all those stiff, braced guides wound tightly on it. Mine, was that the rod would act more like a noodle when we were done. The latter proved to be the case, just as I knew it would. When you shook the rod it flexed deeply and waggled for many seconds before coming to rest. It was absolutely awful.

Even the stiffest guides, acting like splints, cover only a very small amount of the total length of the blank. Even if you could stiffen the area directly between the guide feet, the remainder of the blank would flex more deeply due to the added weight you've put on there. Nobody has ever stiffened a blank by adding guides. As soon as we add the first guide, we've reduced rod efficiency by some amount, small though it may be.

....................

Over a long period of time, and lots and lots of large fish - is it possible for the area directly under a guide foot on teh blank to become flattened, or "dented", recessed, or something along those lines?

I'm glad Al brought up double wrapping guides because I've always done this also but according to recent posts it seems that this may be a waste of time also. Do you think so??

Scott

Scott Youschak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm glad Al brought up double wrapping guides
> because I've always done this also but according
> to recent posts it seems that this may be a waste
> of time also. Do you think so??
>
> Scott

I have read that you do not need too. Then my local shops around here told me I should do it. Put on the first wrap apply 1 coat of epoxy then the 2nd wrap. Some books I read and some people on here said it is not needed, it is over kill and extra weight. I went with the double wrap because I am new and thats what everyone is doing in my area. I am not really sure, seems rod builders are split on this just like they are on many things about rod. I guess guys just go with what they think is best.
Also I did a test and cut of half of the double wrap on each foot. The guide would move, It was still rock solid. I think on my next rod I will just wrap it once and see how that holds up.

Al

I think that one wrap is all you need, especially on a conventional setup because the strain is put on the blank, not the thread, which takes me back to my original question concerning underwraps. Usually I will epoxy the underwrap before putting the guide on and that has to protect the blank in some way. As for double wrapping the guide, the only redeeming thing I can see in doing this is that sometimes when you single-wrap guides you can see the guide through the wrap after finishing it, which makes the wrap LOOK weak, but that is it cosmetic purposes only for the double wrap. And I've sttarted to use E size thread to compensate for this.

Scott

The problem is, the blank does not need protection from guide feet, particularly large heavy walled blanks. If the guide feet are properly prepped, they do not harm the blank in any way. This would be more of a problem on very light, thin walled blanks, but then an underwrap on those blanks will certainly kill a noticeable amount of the blank's responsiveness and sensitivity.

Two overwraps are usually done only when you need a great amount of abrasion resistance. They're not there to hold the guide fast - one wrap will do that just fine. On most 50lb and up rods that I knew would be fished on boats for many years I did make double overwraps. The extra weight wouldn't be noticed on such heavy rods and they'd get a little more protection from being scraped and slid around.

............

Tom:

Doesn't the epoxy protect from abrasion resistance, not the thread? If over the years you've worn down the epoxy enough to expose the thread shouldn't you recoat the rod rather than relying on the thread to now protect from the elements (abrasion). I realize that 12 posts may be excessive for such a simple question but I am just making sure I am completely confident in the process.

Scott



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2005 05:35PM by Scott Youschak.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is, the blank does not need protection
> from guide feet, particularly large heavy walled
> blanks. If the guide feet are properly prepped,
> they do not harm the blank in any way. This would
> be more of a problem on very light, thin walled
> blanks, but then an underwrap on those blanks will
> certainly kill a noticeable amount of the blank's
> responsiveness and sensitivity.
>
> Two overwraps are usually done only when you need
> a great amount of abrasion resistance. They're
> not there to hold the guide fast - one wrap will
> do that just fine. On most 50lb and up rods that
> I knew would be fished on boats for many years I
> did make double overwraps. The extra weight
> wouldn't be noticed on such heavy rods and they'd
> get a little more protection from being scraped
> and slid around.
>
> ............


Thanks Tom for clearing that up. It makes alot of sense now

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is, the blank does not need protection
> from guide feet, particularly large heavy walled
> blanks. If the guide feet are properly prepped,
> they do not harm the blank in any way. This would
> be more of a problem on very light, thin walled
> blanks, but then an underwrap on those blanks will
> certainly kill a noticeable amount of the blank's
> responsiveness and sensitivity.
>
> Two overwraps are usually done only when you need
> a great amount of abrasion resistance. They're
> not there to hold the guide fast - one wrap will
> do that just fine. On most 50lb and up rods that
> I knew would be fished on boats for many years I
> did make double overwraps. The extra weight
> wouldn't be noticed on such heavy rods and they'd
> get a little more protection from being scraped
> and slid around.
>
> ............


Thanks Tom for clearing that up. It makes alot of sense now