I have read the topic of /on cork and a few things come to mind,,,,,,,,,

Cork floats
Cork is bouyant
Cork has a unique look

It also has shock obsorbing characteristics in that it is resilient but that doesn't seem to be a requirement of a rod handle today as some or many builders have gone to wood or other synthetic materials.

I do not know what builders are looking for in cork but seeing as it is a bark and inclusions are a norm then why not incorporate this inclusion into the finished product as a normal /natural display of nature at its best.

I am a hobbiest turner(wood products from a lathe)
There a few wood stabilizing products on the market that could maybe be injected into unprocessed/raw cork making it become a rigid commodity that could be turned on a lathe,sanded and polished to whatever sheen one might wish to have at the same time leaving all of Mother Natures imperfections visable to enjoy.

Is this a viable solution to the lack of good cork,hey I don't know ,just a thought ,you decide. If you opt to do it, all donations for an idea are accepted ,,,,rotflmao

dick

dick laxton Wrote:
>why not incorporate this inclusion
> into the finished product as a normal /natural
> display of nature at its best.
>

Because it looks like crap? Cork is hardly resilient, it's more than likely the least resilient grip material tehre is.

It's just that cork is traditional. It was probably the best material available 100 years ago, but it may not be now. In the wine industry there is a move away from cork to synthetics or screw caps, even for expensive wines, but the public need to be educated that cork is not essential. Same with fishing rods. There must be a good synthetic material available to replace cork, but would anyone buy it?
I use Duplon / EVA on rods for certain purposes but on a fly rod a Duplon handle just means "cheap"
Dave Olley
Scotland

Cork offers some very unique properties and in many cases is an excellent grip material for fishing rods. It's light, yet reasonably tough. It feels good and doesn't tend to rot. So it's ideal for handle and grip material for a wide variety of rods. But I think a little too much is made of cork quality. I've been around fishing rods a pretty good while and there has never really been anything such as "perfect" cork. In fact, it's imperfect by the very nature of what it is. I have plenty of cork rings bought from a variety of sources nearly 20 years ago, and most of it looks pretty shabby. The idea that there was ever a time when beautiful, blemish free cork rings abounded, really isn't quite true. There has always been a small supply of really nice looking cork (even today) but as more guys are building custom rods and wanting the really nice looking stuff, the demand for that small supply has risen and the price has risen accordingly. Most dealers don't even buy the top grade anymore, as most builders won't pay the price for it. But it is available and most closely matches CG1 on the rod maker's cork grade scale. CG2 is commonly available, at least from a few dealers, some of them sponsors on this site.

The alternative is to seek out other materials that will hopefully do the same job. Custom builders need to be creative in this area, just as they seem to be in most other areas of rod building. Lamar's exotic cork is near perfect, but heavier. Wood is great on some rods, also heavier. Either of these can be sleeved with urethane type arbors to reduce handle weight and provide an even tougher and more perfect material than regular cork. And... at least cost. There are all sorts of materials that could prove suitable for fishing rod grips. All we need is for some creative rod builders to find it and utilize it.

My point is, don't let the high cost or scarcity of "perfect" cork keep you from building great handles and grips. There are options and some of them might even turn out to be better than cork. Custom builders have always felt that they stayed one step ahead of commercial rod makers by refusing to cave into tradition, or the idea of what a rod is supposed to look like. Form follows function. There is alternative grip material out there. We just need to find it.

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Sorry Billy ,I didn't know this had been done before so I didn't know how it looked .

The use of the word resilient does apply and was used as a comparative to the cork not having any resiliency after the stabilizing agent was injected and allowed to cure.

dick

Sorry Billy ,I didn't know this had been done before so I didn't know how it looked .

The use of the word resilient does apply and was used as a comparative to the cork not having any resiliency what so ever after the stabilizing agent was injected and allowed to cure ,and not how it compared to other grip materials.

dick

Sorry Billy ,I didn't know this had been done before so I didn't know how it looked .

The use of the word resilient does apply and was used as a comparative to the cork not having any resiliency what so ever after the stabilizing agent was injected and allowed to cure ,and not how it compared to other grip materials.

dick

Thats my fault, i confused resilient with durable. Resislient is how the material holds up when squeezed - cork is definately more resilient than other grip materials (not wood). It's jus tnot as durable when it gets banged around. Sorry about that.

Tom,

Thanks for the great idea on using "sleeves". I use burl and Andy's exotic exclusively when I use cork and it never occured to me to bore it out enough to use Flex Coat arbors in it! That's why I love this place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

Agree with Mike about Tom's suggestion! Next question: What do those Flex Coat arbors weigh compared to regular cork? I do know that Lamar's exotic burl is about 4x the weight of regular, other burl corks (fabricated, not natural) about 3x. And of course, further questions involving how thin a sleeeve of the outer exotic burl you'd aim for, and how best to do it. My guess is I'd wreck more than a few before I got it right.

Tom Doyle,

I use the Flex Coat bits to bore my rins out before I glue them up anyway (works Great) I'll just start using a bigged bit.

Mike

Here is what I found to be the weights of various sized FC Arbors - unbored & uncut (in ounces):
16 0.135
17 0.175
18 0.245
20 0.325
22 0.4
24 0.465

It's going to be lighter than regular cork, but maybe not by a huge amount. However, if you sleeved Andy's cork with it, you'd have the flawless surface of that cork with the light weight, or close to it, of a regular cork grip.

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Since (exotic) burl has been suggested as a grip material, I've got a couple of questions on it's properties.

I've heard that you should use normal cork near the head and the butt on a reelseat as it's less likely to chip. Is this true, or is burl durable enough to do this without the normal cork "caps".

I've heard that burl "flakes" when it gets wet. Is this a misconception or are there valid concerns around this

Finally, I've heard that burl is more stain absorbing. All cork discolors with use, but I heard the the non-uniform "grain", absorbs colors more easily, and also in a less than consistent fashion....

Personally I've always like the look of buttery white cork on a grip, but as most of my rods are for friends, I don't want them or me to pay top dollar for something that can be achieved easier and cheaper. In general, I've liked the burl I've worked with, but I don't want to sacrifice the durability and characteristics (for better or worse) that I've become used to with cork.



-- Cheers
-- James

James do a search on Burl cork. THere is some Burl cork which is crap, I have some I never bothered to use which I wouldn't be surprised if it did flake. I have other stuff which is great & I doubt would have a problem. Teh stuff Andy sells is TOTALLY different than that, it is much more durable & resilient than regular cork, adn will not have any issues other than it is heavy.

The exotic cork Andy sells is not going to chip or flake on you. You could use it on a trolling rod grip, or even on a butt grip that is intended to be inserted into trolling rod holders and I doubt you'd hurt it. It's smooth and it's solid.

I've had what is called "burl" over the years that was quite good and I used it to finish off the fore and aft of regular cork grips .It never chipped or flaked on me, either. But like Billy, I've also had some that was questionable. I think it all depends on the quality of the manufacturer moreso than the actual product name itself.

..............

So with that new information in my head, I now move more questions! Are there specific characteristics you should look for in burl cork? I've gotten burl from 3 different sources and to this point, it's all been the same. I have been thinking of getting some of Andy's exotic burl, but it would be nice to know what I should look for. From reputation, I should consider Andy's cork something like 'CG1', so with that in mind, are there specifics that determine what is 'CG3' style burl?

-- Cheers
-- James

The exotics can't be graded the same way as natural cork. They're natural chunks/chips/pieces joined via an adhesive and under pressure to provide a perfect end product. They won't have holes or pits.

Take the burl you have now and try to flake or chip the stuff with your thumbnail. Can you do it? If not, then it will be fine to use as a grip material. If you can chip or peel or flake it apart, I'd think twice before using it. By the way, none of the commercially available burl type cork rings will be as hard and smooth as what Andy is selling as exotic burl. It's a fairly different product altogether.

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Sorry to be confusing :) I was suggesting the use of the CG scale as a 'relative' scale of quality, not to suggest that burl has pits, etc... At any rate, with that in mind, I'll now be able to judge the quality of burl much better. Since I've just started, I don't have the context or experience in judging the quality of stuff like this! Thanks a ton... :)

-- Cheers
-- James

I understand. I just don't know how you would use it since the grading scale is based primarily on the clarity of the cork, in other words, the amount of blemishes, pits, etc. Burl doesn't have these so the scale would be hard to apply to it.

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