I am building my first rod. It is a graphite 2 piece 6 weight fly rod. I wrapped, stripped, and re-wrapped the guides until the thread work look pretty good. Then I gingerly mixed my Flex Coat "Lite" Formula for several minutes using 3cc of each portion. I coated all of the guides. I had the forethought to experiment by whipping the remaining epoxy to see how many bubbles would be introduced. The epoxy on the thread had not dried after 2 days and the surface of the "whipped" epoxy remained tacky and is still tacky after 1 month. After the first 2 days, I subsequently swore several times and proceeded to strip all of the thread and clean the rod blank. What did I do wrong? Also all of the books talk about heating the expoxy after it is applied to remove bubbles. None of the books indicate when you should heat the expoxy. At what point do you heat the expoxy to remove a bubble after it is applied? Would I be better off using urethane? - Fred

I don't understand the "whipping" of the epoxy. It should be slowly mixed/folded/blended for a few minutes and then poured out onto a piece of aluminum foil (or anything flat/non porous surface. This will allow air bubbles to release and extend the working life somewhat. It is not necessay to heat the epoxy.

If the finish is not cured within 48 hours, something is definately wrong. How good were you with the measuring? That is very critical. You have to have precise/equal measurements of each part of the finish. Did you use syringes?

There should be no need to remove the thread. If it is tacky, just mix another batch and add a coat right over it. If it is not even tacky, just wipe the finish off with alcohol and recoat.

Mike

Heating is not necessary (but it's okay to a point) and not heating it did not cause your problem. I'll get that out of the way up front. If you do want to heat the finish to remove any bubbles in the wraps, do it after you have coated all the wraps and gotten things the way you want. Don't waste time while the finish is setting up and getting thicker - get it on the wraps. You can come back later and worry over any bubbles.

Now there is a window within which you can apply heat and expect to release bubbles. Don't wait an hour and expect to use this trick. The finish has to be relatively "wet" still. Once it really tacks up, heat will do far more harm than good. That window of opportunity will vary somewhat from finish to finish, but generally at room temperature you'd be looking at a maximum of about 30 to 45 minutes after you mix the finish. With a few finishes, you'd have to do it in a little less time.

Now why didn't your finish set up? It sounds like you did everything right, but somethng must be wrong. The one thing you can count on is that if you do mix equal parts and thoroughly mix them, the stuff is going to set up and cure on you. There are several things that could have happened. Did your mixing cup have smooth sides? And did you carefully scrape the finish along and off those sides as you were mixing? The mixing operation is more of a "blending" process where you need to blend, scrape, fold, blend, scrape, fold, etc. This is better than just stirring in circles.

I'd suggest trying a practice batch (won't cost you that much and might save you from another such headache). Measure and mix up another batch, mixing as I suggested and then pour it out, or leave it in the cup, and come back the next day and see if it's set.

..........




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2005 09:05PM by Tom Kirkman.

How did you measure the portions??? Sounds to me like they were not equal. Be sure you are using equal amounts of both.

You don't have to "gingerly" mix, I use a craft (popsicle) stick and mix with vigor for 3 to 4 minutes and then pour the mixture onto a flat piece of aluminum foil which helps get rid of the bubbles.

You can use Permagloss, dries very fast, but takes 3 or 4 coats or spar urethane, 6 to 8 hrs to dry between coats and also takes 3 or 4 coats.

Needle in a haystack syndrome. If you did acurately mix a 3 + 3 cc mix properly and got it on the rod it certainly would have gotten hard unless you did something not mentioned. Did you for any reason wipe the thing with any type of solvent after you applied the finish. Did someone spray WD 40 around the blank cleaning a reel or something like that. What did you mix the finish in - food preparation or medical containers can contain a lot of silicone. Try mixing some finish and applying on a spare piece of work before you mess with this one anymore. You will find something you did that caused this situation.

Good luck! Gon Fishn

if you do decide to heat the finish to get rid of bubbles make sure you move the flame pretty quick
or you will burn it (been there done that ) you will have a big black spot in the finish at least mine was

Fred-
All I can say is my first batch of flexcoat lite went just about the same way yours did. Here's what I found that works well. (BTW- I love flexcoat products. My favorite is flex coat lite, but occassionally I'll use Gudebrod Regular Build as well)

0. Put the containers of epoxy mix in your pockets for 5 -10 minutes. Heat them up and you'll have an easier mix and application to work with.

1. Make sure the lines of your syringes line up on the same spot of the plungers for both 3CC's you select in relation to the graduated marks on the outside.

2. When stirring put a magnet in the inside of the mix and one on the underside of the cup. Rotate the one on the outside in a clockwise motion for a minute or so and then counterclockwise for a minute or so. I have begun to use this method and I'll never go back to any other way. Minimal bubbles if any and it mixes well. The magnets I use are small squarish/rectangular ferrites. (I am getting around to using a large ball bearing on the inside when I get the one I have cleaned up) Also, check out amazingmagnets if you interested in making you're own @#$%& Thread Tensioner type device. They sell ferrite, high powered magnets, and they're not that expensive, in many shapes and sizes.

3. Do use a piece of aluminum foil to spread the epoxy out and blow on it liberally to eliminate many of any of them that you might have.

4. Work quickly, coat the threads "for effect" the first time around. I put the epoxy on a little more on the sides of the guide feet, but thin on the rest. The epoxy just soaks the rest of the thread the first pass and still has the ridges of the thread when dried. Let dry for at least 12 hours.

5. On the second pass, you'll notice if you did it well, the tunnels on the sides of the feet are filled and the contact area of the bend of the guide feet are almost filled to perfection as well. Can you say capillary effect (sure you can say it, but can I spell it-nyet!) This time around you're going for an even coat that has the smooth glazed donut effect. Try to smudge a contact ring of epoxy at the end of the thread wraps and onto the blank that is as narrow as possible. I usually try for no more than 2-3 thread wraps wide. I turn my applicator like a snow plow to push a thin band of epoxy over the thread wraps and onto the blank to form this. The smaller the better.. If you have thread or lint poking through or in this coat, don't touch it or fiddle with it!

6. Let dry 24 hours. Take a good look at your wraps. Did the second coat give you an attractive even glossy look? Do you notice any poking stragglers of thread of lint? If so, take a jeweler's file and grind them down to the surface of the second coat. Don't worry about surface scratches, they'll disappear on the next step. Be sure to not grind deep enough to damage the main wrap thread or (GOD forbid) the blank.

7. Run a lite coat on anything that needs to be "perfected".


This is my 2-3 step process. I have found it works best for me. I like my wraps coated with a slight depth to them, but no footballs style wraps. The worst I've done is half way between flat and football, which looked nice, but wasn't my ultimate preference. I have gotten nothing but compliments on my wrap quality thus far. This is, of course, because these people never got a chance to see the first set of guide wraps that I did! LOL!

Domenic Federico
Infinity Rod Creations
Wickliffe, Ohio

InfinityRodCreations@yahoo.com

Thanks for all of the input! I didn't realize mixing epoxy was as popular as talking about the theory behind finding and positioning of a blank's spine (my only other question posted on this forum). I guess I will have to do some experimenting. I used syringes, plastic mixing cups, and stir sticks that I purchased from a rod building supply catalog when I got my components. My guess at this time is that simple stirring is not enough and that I need to switch to a different type of stir stick to facilitate using the folding/scraping technique. I also did not pour the epoxy mix onto aluminum foil prior to application. Any thoughts on using urethane vs. epoxy? Fred

Mixing cups with smooth inside surfaces (no raised plastic printing); a flat-surfaced tool for rotating the two epoxy components around (a spatula of some sort); and very accurate attention to measurement works well for me.

It's not really a "mixing" action but rather a blending action for about 4 minutes, either using an epoxy mixer or simply rotating the container itself around the flat surfaced tool. Pour it out on aluminum foil & let sit for 2-3 minutes. Apply it fast. Works for me.

I use a homemade epoxy mixer and use one of Joe Kassuba's spatulas when using thick epoxy such as LS Hi-Build. With thinner epoxy, ball-bearings described in the RodMaker Mag article (on epoxy mixers) seems to work well. Accurate measurement is as important as well as a good blending of the components.

Hope this helps a little.

Stan

If you can get your self a box of popsicle sticks for mixing I use them all the time and have no problems.
Don't like those thin mixing sticks, I think they are to thin to mix well.
A box of sticks I got from a craft store for several dollars for 1,000 sticks.

If you can get your self a box of popsicle sticks for mixing I use them all the time and have no problems.
Don't like those thin mixing sticks, I think they are to thin to mix well.
A box of sticks I got from a craft store for several dollars for 1,000 sticks.
I also sand one end to a blunt point to get into the corners of the cup

I use a old butter knife that I bought at a antique/junk shop for 50 cents, been using it for four years, and probably use it for another four years !!

ML

Jeez, that dental pick with a bent end at 90 degrees I've been using for 20 + years must be way too thin, then???

Putter
Williston, ND

Randy,

I guess I have to admit that I usually use plain old toothpicks with no problems. I just stir slow.

Mike

Guess ya just have ta know how to mix or stir???
Use the middle finger if it works LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2005 02:52PM by bill boettcher.

I get a bunch of communion glasses from a friend. They are very small with smooth edges and are clear. I put the resin in one and the hardener in the other one. If you put them side by side, it is very easy to ensure that you have exactly the same amount in both. I then put them in a plastic mixing cup from the hobby shop. Getting ALL of the resin and hardener out is the key. I have found that some folks don't spend enough time mixing. I mix for at least two minutes and if you are careful, very few bubbles form. I place the mixed epoxy on the aluminum sheet that several have recommended and spread it as thin as I can to ensure that all of the bubbles get out. You can also introduce bubbles with the brush if you aren't careful.