Here are some weights of some components for the ultimate weight junkies. ;) If this has not been done before, I hope that we could collect a chart of weights of different components to help people out in the future. Hope someone finds this interesting - at least one can clearly see the lightness of Recoil guides compared to regular chrome guides.

REC preformed cork grips:
6.5" Flor Western 12.033g
6.5" Flor Western (uncontoured) 12.588g

REC Recoil RSG stripping guides:
#8 0.362g
#12 0.621g
#16 0.966g

Seymo black/TiCH-ring stripping guides:
#12 1.068g
#16 1.906g

REC Recoil RSN snake guides:
#1/0 0.036g
#1 0.047g
#2 0.050g
#3 0.065g
#4 0.084g

Pac Bay chrome single foot snakes:
#1/0 0.085g
#1 0.095g
#5 0.217g

Y-shaped chrome
#5 0.332g
#4 0.200g

REC Recoil RSCT tip top:
#4.0 0.263g

Pac Bay chrome tip top:
#4.5 0.425g

Snake Brand chrome tip top:
#4.0 0.285g

Chrome hook keeper 0.056g

REC nickel silver winding check:
#25/64 0.520g

REC reel seats:
NBGS BL/walnut 35.333g
NSU BE-maple 38.794g



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2005 01:42PM by Mikko Stenberg.

So looking at these numbers, if I built two fly rods with a #12 stripper, 7 #1 snakes and a 4.0 tip top, one use Recoils and one using regular components, the rod using the Recoil guides would be .037 ounces lighter. And, I would only have to pay about 3 times as much to save about 1/3 ounce. What a deal. I personally don't see the advantage. I don't know of anyone who could feel that difference in weight and I don't believe anyone I know could tell the difference in blind casting those two hypothetical rods.

Gerry,

I don't think it is the total amount of weight savings as much as where the weight is saved. In this case the weight savings all falls in front of your hand and much of it is in the tip section as that is where most of the guides fall. I am absolutely convinced that I could feel that 1/3+ oz on a small weight rod up to a 4 or 5 weight and will gladly pay for the weight savings. Also, don't discount the improvement in recovery rates that even a small weight reduction yields.

Regards,

Bill

Good and well pointed out observation Gerry! This highlights well the importance of light coats and wrappings. But how about the other benefits of Recoil guides.?

I could probably also feel 1/3 ounce IF it was all concentrated at the tip of the rod, but when it's distributed over a distance of 5-7', the weight savings at any one point is minimal (the difference in tip top weight is .009 oz) and has very little effect, except maybe on a 1 weight. I built two Pac Bay Tradition 7'9" 3 weights for my son and I. On his I used Amtak holographic spinning guides and on mine I used Forecast single foot wire guides. They both have Rio Pocketwater lines. I've fished with both rods and cannot tell the difference in casting or mending. I know his rod is heavier than mine, but if it were not for the grips, I couldn't tell the difference if I was casting blind-folded.

I don't get it! Sure the tiptop weight is minimal, but on a 3 pc rod there will most likely be 6 guides in the top section in addition to the tiptop. (assuming a 8 1/2 to 9 foot rod) The added weight is mostly located in the one section where it will have the most negative effect. Remember RECOVERY! It is to me the difference between building a "drafthorse" or a "thorobred".

My personal opinion is that sweating over shaving a fraction of an ounce from a rod, unless it's a 1 weight, is beyond reason. It strikes me the same way that using titanium utensils for backpacking does, a lot of extra cost for an insignificant gain. It's probably just my personal likes in how a rod behaves, but I've never liked line cannons. I can cast further than I can even begin to control the line and I don't break tippets when I set the hook. Every rod I've built recovers just fine.

Building custom rods is all about doing it your way. I just view the focus on shaving minimal amounts of weight as excessive.

The weight savings porbably wouldn't matter on a smaller rod such as a 5'6" ultra light but in my opinion on a rod that's as long as 13 + feet such that you'd find on a spey or float rod the weight savings would help in balancing the rod so it doesn't feel as tip heavy.

According to the REC web site the cost of a size 20 Recoil spinning guide costs $4.50 and the size 6 guide of the same model costs $0.50. Considering the cost of other guides, I'm saving in the wallet (doesn't get lighter) and I'm saving on the rod. Sounds pretty good to me.

Randy

I think you need to check the prices again. The base price for Recoil spinning guides is $4.75. A size 20 is an add of $4.75 and a size 6 is a minus of $0.50. That makes the cost for the size 20 $9.50 and the size 6 $4.25.

Having 1/3 oz additional wt near the end of a 9' rod will take a more than 1oz heavier reel to balance the weight, for those who like balanced outfits. Also the extra wt at the end (swing wt) makes stopping the rod effectively (common casting fault) more difficult. Casting faults are magnified with increased distance. I find the wt difference of components on a 6'6" 2wt less important than on a 9' 4 or 5wt. Short rods are all light, even bamboo and they're mostly used for casting short distances. Long rods are very difficult to build light on the tip end and they are commonly used to cast longer distances. On a 9' 10wt the difference isn't as noticable because of the greater mass of the whole outfit.

Gerry is correct about the price of the Rec guides. However, if weight is a big
concern for the project in question the price is well worth it. If slick is what one
is looking for, ceramics are the way to go.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

It would be interesting to see the weights of the lightest ceramic single foot guides in comparison to the wire (Recoil, chrome etc.) guides. Would anyone happen to have a scale, guides and time and will to do this?

I just took another look at the prices of the guides and I stand corrected. The price list on the website is a bit misleading.

Randy