Amen

It isn't about speed. But proponents of tape need something to justify the use of that tape. It's not as long lasting in many cases, doesn't cost less and won't withstand water seepage like the FC arbors do. So the last resort is that it's faster somehow. Maybe it is for some people but not for me. Tape just takes too long, costs too much, and I can't count on it under any and all exterior conditions. That's why I use the newer FC arbors.

But hey, that's just me. Everybody is free to use whatever they want. What others use on their rods doesn't affect me and vice versa.

I have enjoyed reading this post and already have some thoughts on doing some things different. Was not going to comment until Richard finally mentioned speed. I have always spent more time with the butt cap/gimbal, grips,and seat mount and assembly than anything else on the rod. My method often depends on the situation and varies. I think of it as cheap insurance. If something goes wrong "fore of the foregrip" it can usually be redone with no harm (or lots-a -time). Let it be aft and I can have a problem that consumes time plenty. Not to mention a customer who can be disappointed enough to tell the world what an amateur I am. JMHO on reel seat speed. Ron

I have no problem using a few winds of masking tape if the space is just a little bit. But any more than taken up by 4 or 5 wraps of tape and I'll use cord spiralled up the blank to take up that space. Any more than I can take up with 1/8" cord and I'll use cork arbors. I plan to try the FlexCote arbors on my next go around though. They sound like they could be the best all around thing going for taking up larger spaces.

I don't understand with the use of mesh or drywall tapes why anyone still uses masking tape. I use both foam arbors and tape, depending on the rod and situation. I just ordered my first Flexcoat arbors, so can't comment on them.

It just seems to me that properly done, the mesh tape will have epoxy mixed with the tape all the way from the blank to the reel seat. In my mind it has to be stronger than regular masking tape, although I've never seen any tests on this. To me it seems like it would be less susceptable to water damage over time as well.

Phil

How long do Flex Coat arbors last and how well do they withstand water seepage? I have used them on several rods but only time will tell how they hold up in the long run. I recently cut up a couple of rods I made about 5-1/2 years ago when I just started rod building, and there were no problems with the masking tape I used for arbors . . . on one rod I broke the blank trying to twist the reel seat off.

The pair of Flexcoat arbors I submerged in water yesterday have steadily soaked up water for a total weight increase of a little more than 6 % (0.6 gram increase from dry weight of 10 grams) so they're not impervious to water.

Shawn - "Tape .... costs too much," - uh, an FC arbor costs $1.50 per, a roll of tape to make arbors on probably 20 rods costs $2.

Phil - drywall tape seems to end up heavier than masking tape. THat's why I wouldn't use it on a lighter rod, an Offshore rod no worry.

If you put a coat of rod bond on the ends of the reel seat this will keep the water out

Tape arbors, if you totally encapsulate them with epoxy, end up costing a bit more in the long run than the Flex Coat arbors do. Epoxy would be the major expense in the equation (although I don't personally think of even $1 to $2 worth of epoxy as being expensive - not a on rod that may be sold for several hundred dollars or used for a decade or more).

The Flex Coat arbors are a urethane foam, they are totally impervious to water. They will not break down over time, at least not in the time frames we tend to think of. If you submerge them, water may get into the tiny crevaces in the arbor surface itself, but the foam itself neither soaks up water nor is it harmed by water. In fact, you could use them in assemblies that remain totally submerged and it's very doubtful you'd ever have a problem with them.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2005 09:07AM by Tom Kirkman.

Billy - Don't you put epoxy on your tape arbors???? I think most do and they even pour in a bunch of the stuff inbetween those tape arbors. They probably spend two or three dollars in epoxy on each seat. Particularly if it's a larger seat for use on a saltwater rod. The guy who got me started in rod building used to put in almost on ounce of epoxy on each seat he installed with the tape arbors. The Flex Coat arbors only take just a thin glue line and very little epoxy. I still believe the final cost favors them over tape.

I personally see no need in pouring the entire area between the tape with epoxy - to me that just makes no sense at all. How will water get between the tape arbors?? The only way water can get under the seat is from the ends of the reel seat, no tthe middle. Make sure the ends are fully coated with epoxy, no water gets in. I also make sure teh entire bushing is encapsulated with epoxy, but that does not require an entire ounce or 2 of epoxy under teh seat - just put a blob of epoxy around the bushing, step on teh foot pedal, and make a small ramp on both sides of the tape.

With 1 Tablespoon of Rod Bond (A & B = 2), I'm able to instal the butt grip, coat the tape arbors, instal the reel seat, instal the forgrip - making sure the excess epoxy is pushed into the front of the reel seat - and if I ever installed butt caps, I'd have more than enough leftover for that too.

as noted before, speed is a non-issue - especially when you factor in the fancy wraps and other bling bling that many builders are adding to their rods. I'm quite new to this fantastic pasttime - but my goal is to build the best tool I can for my intended purpose. To that end, why would I use an old technology? My rods will only have the FC arbors, unless something even better comes along. I could care less if it took 10 times as long as tape, it's a structurally superior system.

Billy - Over and over and over people who use tape say that you don't want to rely on the tape itself for support. That it's only there to center the seat and that you pour the epoxy in there to actually make the arbors that will support the seat. If you do it that way which is the way they all say it should be done, you wind up using a TON of epoxy. If you do it the way you say, then the tape will break down over time just from age and there will be nothing left for support. The tape adhesive will dry out and the seat will be able to turn or spin. Wind some masking tape up and set it around somewhere the sun can put a little heat on it. come back a year later and see what's happened to the cheap adhesive they use to make it sticky. It dries out and lets go. The stuff turns to dust almost. But like I said, what other guys use is up to them. I won't ever use tape myself. Just won't take the chance.

Richard

Moot point. As a custom rod builder I am always interested in the best technical solution to any build process. If I can acheive as near dam it perfect concentricity with pre- fabbed arbors with my current equipment then heh that's the way I want to go. The reason I raised the post in the first instance was purley because some builders were saying that arbors were a much quicker solution to bushing reel seats than tape So I decided to look into wether that was strictly speaking true. Taking the method of fitting an arbor as I have described then I would argue strongly that tape is faster in fact. But Tom did point out that if you fit a pre- fabbed arbor a la Rodmker Mag then in fact it could be done in two minutes. I am guessing that the article allows for gluing of the arbor onto the blank and in the reel seat as one step whereas in my example of have done it in two which I feel is perhaps easier for some.I need to see the article really. But I agree whats the rush although there is also a limit even for custom builders on time. Especially true if you hope to be able to sell your rods at a price that people can afford to pay.
I did not expect such a large responce and it's good to see the different view points and perspectives. Pretty healthy stuff. Thanks for your input

Going fishing this coming week guys

Tight Lines
Mike O.

Heh Guys

I am a bit surprised or maybe I should not be., that the discussion got onto the relative merits of tape and pre-fabs. That was not my intention as I reckoned we had done that to death recently. My post was totaly centered around speed of fitting tape verses Pre-fabbed arbors. It's amazing how passionate we can get on some issues and I include myself here. Looks like the argument could go on long enough for my hoped for Grandchildren to run with. Thanks for all the rsponses.

I'm done I don't know about you.

Regards

Mike O.