Hi. I am wrapping a rod using only Gudebrod HT Metallic tread. Do I need to color preserve the threads? Thanks...Kevin

Not needed. But if you want to just to make sure the air is out of the threads.

Thanks Bill. Hadn't thought about the air issue. Sounds like a good idea to do it anyway.

Usually there is no trouble with just clear,

Kevin Norstuen - Please be advised that if you use Color Preserver (CP) on any brand of Metallic Thread, that the CP needs to be very dry before you encase it in the thread finish. (I would wait at least 24 hours, but no more than 48 hours, assuming the rod is kept in a well-ventilated / climate controlled room at around 65-80 degrees Fahrenheit.)

(Burnishing metallic thread or passing it between a compressive thread tensioning device can damage the foil and can cause a variety of problems.)

There have been other Posts & Replies on this subject at RBO which tell the tales of cloudiness or splotchiness developing in the Thread Finish (TF) [thread epoxy] because a CP was used on the Metallic Thread.

You can use the RBO Search feature for SEARCH = "CP METALLIC", Body Text and Subject Header. Also, look up the AUTHOR = Daniel Rotea, back in early march 2005. He posted pictures of a beautiful offshore rod which was lavished with metallic thread that clouded. (Ouch!)

The general consensus among those responding at RBO was that the CP had not dried enough prior to the application of the TF. The CP had leached out from under the metallic foil coating the thread, and had precipitated in the epoxy TF before it cured, causing a cloudy or splotchy appearance in the TF. At that stage, there is no real remedy for that situation other than re-wrapping the affected thread wraps, which makes for three times the original amount of work.

I can't comment personally on the problem of (micro-)air bubbles forming in the thread finish because air was not displaced by the application of the epoxy TF. I think if you apply the epoxy in a wicking fashion and give it an extra few seconds of time to soak into the thread and between the threads before you just glob it on and encase the threads in resin and entomb the air, then you will displace the air properly, and thereby entirely avoid the issue of the CP possibly leaching out & clouding the thread finish after it cures.

Generally speaking, using a third component in the 2-part epoxy to behave as a "thinner" (a solvent which can act to reduce the viscosity of the thread finish and enhance thread wetting / wicking and air displacement) is NOT recommended, because this can interfere with the chemical reaction that cures the epoxy, and can give a poorer quality casing of the thread, both physically and visually. If you go that route, you're more on your own, ... do test wraps on scrap blank first.

Here's a one of many quotes from the RBO Forum which could have been chosen to describe the experience of other RBs. Granted, opinions may vary, but not the facts.

Re: wrapping advice needed Bill Stevens 02-13-05 07:33PM
No CP needed at all on the metallic thread. It is my impression that the primary purpose of the CP is color maintenance. The metallics will maintain a high degree of brilliance without any CP. Air displacement is an additional benefit. Just do a good job wrapping & packing and NO BURNISH. Start the finish on the end of the guide away from the ring so that the initial soak displaces any air under the foot. If you do not use an underwrap, this will probably give you a stronger attachment point. Gon Fishn

Kevin, if you already used the CP and had no problems: Fine, don't panic because of what I said above. You lucked out. Just leave well enough alone. But do be aware of the potential problems of using CP on Metallic Threads, And apply your (epoxy) thread finish in such a way that air bubbles do not ruin your thread finish or thread art, and you should not need any CP to displace air when you use Metallic Thread, as under-, over-, or accent wrap.

I hope this helps you make a better informed decision in this regard.
-Cliff Hall, Gainesville, FL- +++

I guess I didn't know any better because I always use CP over metallics (I use 90% metallic threads) and have NEVER had any problems. As Cliff noted. I usually wait 24 hours. The reason that I use it is to lock the threads in place so that they don't shift when the epoxy is appliedDon't know about anyone else but works for me.

Mike

Like Mike, I use metallic threads 90% plus on guide wraps. I've used them ever since I first was aware they were out there. Never have used CP on them once. I haven't had any more problems with bubbles in the finish than on standard threads.

I do start putting on the finish from the toe of the guide and work up towards the ring. I leave the ends of the tunnels open so the finish works in the tunnel area all by itself. I then come back later and 'tease' the epoxy over the ends of the threads and barely onto the blank, making sure the tunnel ends are now sealed.

I've re-wrapped many of my own guide wraps through the years after a guide had been broken or crushed. The tunnels are filled completely on all of these wraps. Trick is to mix up fresh finish if it starts getting a bit thick and setting up. It won't penetrate, protect, or seal worth a darn if it's put on after that point.

Virtually no bubbles at all with metallic threads applying finish in this manner; at least no more than standard winding threads (non-metallic).

Putter
Williston, ND