Well said Billy. One thing I still can't understand is why so many people feel that you can either have function or glitz, not both. If I do 6 guides with two inlay bands each, the difference between a single color wrap is that I've added an additional .15" of thread to the rod. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a machine, much less a human, that can show a negative effect of that amount on performance.

As far as buttwraps, I feel the same way. Nobody will ever convince me that an 8" butt wrap has a negative effect on a rod.

Performance should be goal #1. But there's no reason why it cannot be combined with art, unless someone just plain prefers the simple look. Nothing wrong with that at all. But if done correctly, inlays and trim bands can be incorporated into a guide wrap with nearly no more thread (weight) than a plain jane. It just takes a bit more effort.

Billy...I love reading your responses! LOL They always seem to make sense.

Steve

Hi Billy

Things are ok this side of the pond except our fishing is not a patch on what you guys have. I see you have not changed one jot Billy and that is very refreshing. Yes in essence I agree with you, but I could not go as far as you did with your first attempt at a plain stick too radical for me.

Jesse what is the point you are trying to make hear. I think I see it between the lines but I may have it wrong. Would you expand a liitle please.

Regards Mike OLiver

Hi, All. Me, well, I like a subtle look (well, most of the time) to my rods. You know, the wrap started close to the guide foot, a 3 - 5 turn trim ring or two, A strict adherance(sp?) to Tom's article on 'fit & finish' , by which I Mean No shortcuts, no left out steps, everything to make this rod i'm building now the best I've done so far, knowing I've not been satisfied with a rod yet. Of course, this means what most of you all call plain or plain vanilla rods. My wife needs the phone, must go. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Steve

I don't believe I said you label people. I said that this attitude reminded me of the "purist" fly fishermen who do. My parting comment was to warn against labeling people. Not that I said you do but just advising not go there.

That was advice; no charge.

You know, I think it is admirable that you have such dedication and focus in your rod building that you want to achieve perfection in your work. I quite frankly don't. I build rods mainly for myself, my brother, a few friends and the grandkids. I charge cost. The labor is my love. I don’t build the best rods but what I love to build is working rods; not pieces of art. If I want art, I will invest in a fine print or some other fine trinket that can be put on a shelf undisturbed. However, fishing rods to me are for use, for fishing long hours, for banging around in a boat or on a small stream. I like understatement in a rod. No contrasting colors in the wraps. Dull is what I like in a rod. I look at the photos of some and am amazed at the skill and near perfection of some of the wrappings I see. Do I like them? Not particularly. It is not what I choose to have on my rods. Does that make them wrong? Absolutely not. They are fulfilling a need and want for someone and there is a skilled rod builder out there who is capable of creating these beautiful rods. Does not liking them make me wrong? I would hope that nobody would stoop to condemn another’s preference simply because it is not what they themselves like.

Rod building, as I have found out over the past 15 years or so is a big boat. You can sit anywhere you want in the boat. Just don't stand up and try to tell someone that they have no right to be in the boat because they do not put their shoes on like you. That would have to be considered, in addition to bad manners, a sign of narrow mindedness and something personally insulting to the recipient of the comments.

Good comment Richard. I go all out on my rods but respect those who have a different view of what the words 'custom rod' may mean. Until some governing body deems the words to apply to a certain type or rod or builder, I would guess that a wide variety of builders will use it in a wide variety of ways.

But I also respect Steve's feelings on his own work. He probably just feels a bit uneasy when rods he labors over so tirelessly are lumped in with rods that are just assembled from ready parts and both are called 'custom.' There is a difference but the term isn't going to point that out to anyone.

Bud - EXCELLENT point in your last line, I think that's where Steve is coming from.

Jesse - personally, if I had to build rods as a main source of income, I would be calling you every day to figure out a better way to get them done. As I said, nothing wrong with that, you do what you have to do. I'm fortunate that I can stick to the way I do my rods without worrying about paying my electricity bill with teh labor charge on a rod. No way I'd be spending 20 hours on a rod, and to be honest, no way would I would enjoy myself.

Ruchard - "If I want art, I will invest in a fine print or some other fine trinket that can be put on a shelf undisturbed. However, fishing rods to me are for use, for fishing long hours, for banging around in a boat or on a small stream" - fishing rods are there to get beat to death, no doubt. I do not build "wallhanger" rods, everything I build is for Party Boat fishing up in the North East, and teh rods deserve to get beat up, they are fishign rods. Can't let that deter you, if you are into it, from building decked out rods. There is a builder from Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, NY, who posts pictures from time to time, Ralph Scaglione. His rods looks very good, he spends a good bit of time on teh butt wraps, you cannot imagine how beat up his rods are after a year, let alone 10+++ years of daily party boat fishing. Yet he still does what he enjoys doing on the rods he wraps.

What Bud said in his last line is what I'm talking about.

Bud I'll just let you and Billy speak for me since I'm unable to get it out myself......LOL

Told ya I'd be a lousy motivational speaker.....LOL

No way I would devote the time that I could be fishing to making a rod that will get beat and broken look pretty. But that's just how I feel about my equipment since I use it very, very, frequently the pretty wouldn't last and my time investment would have, IMHO been wasted.

Maybe the really decked out rods should be spelled differently and pronounced with a French accent.. Like custume. Just a thought....

Here is one of Ralphie's laest rods, built to get abused for Codsishing Party Boats up in New England.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Making a rod look nice doesn't require fancy wraps or exotic wood handles. But whatever you do you should do well. Many guys don't and it reflects badly on all custom rod builders.

One thing Steve can take pride in is there is a difference between his custom rods and those of the semi mass produced custom rods. He should make it plain to his customers what those differences are.

Mike...what you said in those last two sentences is what I do. The first thing I ask a person who is wanting a rod built is "How soon do you need it?" Then I explain why. I put an awful lot of time into a rod just thinking about what to do to it. I try my best to make'em, as Billy would say, decked out but also build'em for their true intention....fishing and fishing hard! I always feel like I could have done better on every rod and I also feel inferior to other rod builders because of that.