When I think of a custom rod I think of that rod as getting very special attention to make it truly a custom rod. I know of some builders who will just slap on some pre-made cork grips, reel seat, some simple guide wraps, decals for some flash and simple, most commonly chevron, wraps. I can see where that is a custom rod but it doesn't have that special touch to it. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that because a lot of builders make their living getting out those quick put together custom rods. I'm probably short changing myself because it will sometimes take me a month to build one rod and I have to charge more. I spend a lot of time placing guides, test casting, aligning guides, thinking of how I want to make the grips, wraps and butt wrap. I just believe if you're gonna make a custom rod for a person that it should be "CUSTOM". I hope I don't offend anyone here by my opinions and would gladly recieve anyone's opinions and thoughts.

Thanks,
Steve

There are different interpretations of what a custom rod is. Generally, most people see it as being any rod that is not built in a factory or commercial type setting. Granted, some high-volume builders are just a notch aware from being small production assemblers, but there is a niche for all variations of what we call custom rods. If you like the way you build and labor over your rods, more power to you. The guy who is doing a "paint by the numbers" type rod, well, he has his market too.

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First of all, I agree with you to a certain extent. A custom rod should be a "CUSTOM Rod." That is my way of thinking. On the other hand, there are some guys that will buy a rod just because it was put together by a certain person. Many years ago I knew of a fellow that was one heck of a fisherman. All of the old salt pluggers knew him and liked to fish with him. He was a true gentleman and one of the nicest men I ever met. He also made and sold rods to supplement his retirement or to stay active. I wouldn't put his rods in the "CUSTOM" catagory but he sold plenty of them. One reason was that guys wanted a rod with "made by so and so" on it. At that time I was selling rods also but he would sell ten to my one. Around the same time in the early 80's there was a rodbuilder here that was making truly beautiful custom rods. Some ot his rods had multicolored weaves, some were two piece offshore rods, and he had won first place at a rod show for one of his trolling rods. However, the old gentleman with his simple rods sold more rods than both of us. Go figure.

Steve

I hate to say it but your description of a custom rod builder reminds me too much of the "purist" definition of a fly fisherman that I used to encounter on a well known fly fishing BB. That being that one must eschew all other forms of fly fishing and cast to the Latin named hatch currently on the water. And one only fishes for trout if one is a purist. If one uses a spinning rod for trout it is tantamount to heresy.

Such narrow definitions are self serving and typically offered to justify ones own preference or course of action. Non-believers are labeled heritecs and with the notation that they are inferior and ought to be banned.

The terms "Fishing" and "Custom Rod Building" are and ought to be broad definitions ion scope, describing a wide range of activities and methodology. Restricting or trying to redefine these terms in order to justify your own particular style and practice is not in keeping with the reality of the situation. It is also an elitist attitude that is found in many hobbies and pastimes that only tend to fracture the fraternity of the participants.

My advice is to do your thing in rod building the way you choose and avoid labeling or pigeon holing others who may choose to practice it a different way.

Tom, Ellis and Richard bring up great points and I've gotta repeat the best one here:

Do it your own way and avoid labeling others who don't do it the way you do.

Putter
Williston, ND

My own idea of a custom rod is one that is made for the individual fisherman. This in includes not only for the specific way he fishes, but for his physical size and make up as well. I've never understood how pre-made rods could be called custom. But heck, what other people build and what they choose to call them doesn't bother me in the least.

Steve,
In terms of what I will put my name on, I think along the same lines as you do. Unless I build it from ground up, I won't put my name on it, with the exception of preformed grips. They do have their place. I've rewrapped rack rods that I've been given and even some for myself, but my name isn't on them. If I didn't mount a grip or reel seat, the most I'll put on it with my name is "refurbished by".

I'm basically one of those guys that Mr. Carlsen speaks of. A bit of an elitist in what I think about when I hear "Custom Rod" when applied to myself. I take great pride in my work, and have reworked many because they weren't up to my standards the next day. If I didn't have deadlines, I'd never finish a rod. Truth is, I can't think of a single rod that I've built that in retrospect or looking at a pic, I've actually been satisfied with. Some, I've offered to rebuild at no cost during the off season, after spending way too much time blowing up pics and staring at flaws. it's also why I agree entirely with Richard's last two paragraphs for the same reasons I agree with what Tom said. My definition is different than yours, his, theirs, etc. While I may not agree on what a custom rod is, there are only a handfull of people I actually know that I would call out on being a custom builder. There's a difference.

I charge much less than many others (none that frequent here) who do lower quality work, though they get more business. Gets into what Ellis speaks of. There's a bit of marketing in this line of work, and also drives home the point about a craftsman's reputation. I know many old timers back in MN who don't advertise and never heard of this place. They are still in the stone age and do substandard work compared to the majority of folks in here. But people pay handsomely for a rod built by them, amounts that I would be embarrassed to ask for. I had a great reputation in some circles many years ago, then I stopped building. Now that I'm back into it, I'm nobody. Reputation, whether you do top notch work or not, is everything.

And now for an addendum. We sometimes forget that a rod should be functional above all else. Which reminds me of my dad. He managed some ranches in West Texas that contained some very good fishing spots. One day I was complaining that I did not have a bass rod to catch some bass that I had seen in a creek. Dad went to the ranch house and got a long calcuta pole. He cut a strip out of an old black inner tube which he attached to the hook. After several pitches under some overhanging willow trees he caught a bass. After I got into rodbuilding, I took a set of my rods back home to show him. He said that they were pretty but why not decorate the hook since that is where the fish are caught. He always had a simple answer to everything. I imagine that if he were still alive and a rodbuilder now he would be more concerned on how the rod would function than on how pretty it looked.
Cheers, Ellis

Steve - it's kind of easy to see who builds what type of rod based on responses, huh? I'm with you - charge a lot of money, and keep t real - build each rod to the best of your ability. Don't sell out to make a buck. THere isn't anything wrong with that, you gotta do what you gotta do to pay the bills, but if you're building because you enjoy building decked out rods, stick with it.

Personally, I refuse to build plain rods. I rather build 5 rods per year where I spend 20 hours on each, then to spit out rod after rod after rod - with no love or passion for any of them. Again, if that's what you do, that's fine by me.

That's what I'm talking about Billy. To me you've got the right attitude about rod building.

To Putter and R. Carlsen.....I don't recall labeling anyone.

im pretty new to this, im building my 5th and 6th rods right now. i don't sell any of my rods but i LOVE to build these things. i've even put the offer out to friends that i'll build them a rod no charge, just buy the components. i've made some pretty rods, all of them have come out very well thanks to tips from you guys, videos, articles etc. And all of them have been custom!! I mean custom obviously comes from the word customized. As in customized for the user. In my case, its been me and my dad. I'm working on a backpacking rod right now, its designed to be 6', i might make it 4'6". Try finding a Loomis or a St. Croix with fuji SiC guids sitting in the rack. Or how about a 5 foot kencor with faded wraps and single gold bands in the middle. Or how about hand carved (a file and sandpaper!) cork handles with a burl ring in the mix. Or making sure that every grip is properly sealed. Even the smallest steps of making sure the epoxy properly fills in the gaps behind spinning guides. All of this is what custom is. Not how much time you spend lining up a guide, but the ability to make custom choices. Saying which guides you want, or what size handle you need is all custom. If that comes preformed so be it. Or if you like the factory location and sizes of guides, so be it as well. The beauty of making rods is that EVERYTHING is custom! if you made a rod just like the factory version, that's custom b/c you made it for your specifications. boy i love this stuff

Ellis - wouldn't it make sense if spending all that time decorating the rod, that the builder will also spend the time to make the rod functional? IT's very easy to make a rod function well, imo - spend the time and research what is best, fish teh rods you build, try different things. Not for nothing, there are a lot of people who were "champion functional" rodbuilders for their entire career as a rodbuilder, and in the past few years we've all learned all teh things which made them champions, well - some of us now feel (in some cases know?) there are much better ways to do things. Does this mean the champion rodbuilders were undercover hacks because they didn't figure out a better way to do things? lol, I dunno, but it sure funny to wonder abou tit.

The only thing better than a functional rod, is a highly decorated functional rod, with top quality bling bling components, exxotic wood, handmade reel seats, crisp guide wraps, whorishly brght butt & guide wraps, eye popping weaves, and the final component - a large price tag which pople will balk at when you tell them, while otehrs pay twice as much for rods built from "celebrity" builders with high profile reputations, androds not half as nicely built nor functional (unless epoxy crawling up to teh guide ring is functional).

Gotta love Friday nights.

Steve.... No, youre not wrong thinking this way........just make sure you continue to enjoy building fishing rods, and never tell someone "It'll be done next week".

You sure didn't label anyone in what you said, Steve. In fact, you said:

"I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that"...

This subject has been brought up before and it's turned there before, though, and often times the person bringing up the subject tended to be 'looking down' at others. You don't seem to be doing or saying that.

I guess the biggest thing is to enjoy building rods, enjoy looking at what you've created knowing you've put forth your best effort, and continue to learn along the path.

Putter
Williston, ND

Interesting read. If I may, I'll throw my thoughts in the hat too.

For me, a custom rod is simply a rod made for a specific purpose which an 'off the shelf' rod cannot fulfill as well. That's about it. This purpose may include the ultimate craftsmanship, ultimate decor, utlimate 'lean and mean' design devoid of absolutely any unnecessary frills (my approach), or even that one an get a quality rod at lower cost this way. The reasons may be unlimited - they are all custom rods to me.

Put another way, to define it negatively, a custom rod is not an identical reproduction of a commercially produced rod unless one is trying to duplicate that at a lower cost.

So, I'm making rods for my family in part because I don't think I can find what we're looking for off the shelf anywhere.

Mo

I make some rods for friends here and there, between that, myself, the Navy, and my part time job, and the weather I hardly get out fishing anymore. Yet I'm still learning and also never satisfied with how a rod turns out.

I'm an advocate of pre-shaped grips, especially for saltwater rods and hypalon. And some of my favorite rods are the ones that have garnet w/ no CP. I'd still consider them custom although they may not be as fancy as I'd like. If I made rods as fancy as I'd like to, it would take me two to three months to finish one with my schedule.

no you are not wrong.for your thought.i spend too much time on building a rod myself.way too much.i am just learning also.i just casted a rod today that i was going to sell to a friend.it is a a forecast sh1025 made into a casting rod.it has been looking at me for a month.i sure am glad i decided to let it fish today.it is so sweet.pluss it caught fish.i put a abu 5501 with 10 lb. test on it and let my 12 year old son fish it.he kept saying.wow dad this rod is nice,i want it.so after about the fourth time of that .i took it from him and made a few casts with it.i didn't want to give it back.i liked every thing about it.i am going to build another one for me. that one is his..he caught the first fish on it ,on his first cast..

Hi Steve,

You have opened up an interesting can of worms here. My view point on what constitutes custom rod building is a tad different to yours and a @#$%& of a lot different to the famous Billy Vivona ( long Time No speak Billy) Ok so whats my slant. Well I am more driven by performance than adorament on rods. To me if what I put on a rod does not contribute to function or perfomance then I don't want it. I take a long time over my rods. They look very minimalist. I spend a long time on preping my guides checking every component for flaws or potential flaws. I pull off the first four layers of thread on every brand new spool just in case the supplier has staff that is carless with personal hygene. I work closely with my customer they get far more of my time that I get when I visit my Doctor who is charging me arounf $260 for about 20 minutes. But my rods are plain ( I like NCP Thread sorry) and to many on this site dull and uniteresting but to me they are very much customised rods where every ounce of my soul and skill that I posses has gone into them. I certainly do not do it for the money.
But you know I really admire the effort and tremedous amounts of skill I see in rods that are built in particular form participents of this board. I am in awe of some of the fancy work I see in the Photos but at the same time I am not drawn to want to replicate this side of the art. I fear were I to re- locate into the US I would get very hungry.

I love rod building but at the same time am an avid fisherman and I see rods in very practical terms as tools of my sport. When I am fishing I don't ever want to be thinging about my rods or gear as it detracts from the moment.

For my final pice of heracy I even have been know to admire some factory built rods which often reprsent a lot better design that many of us give them credit for and are in many cases extreemly good value for the money.


Your opinion is valid for you and I respect it but a rod covered in glory is no more customised in my opinion than one built for a specific customer to perfom in a pre-desribed manner and is as lean and as mean as it can get.

Regards
Mike OLiver

From the "other side" of the pond - what's up Mike O?!?! For the record, my first response was directed at Steve, my second post was toungue in cheek. Everyone is different & wrap rods for a variety of reasons. I haven't met Steve, but I've spoken to him via e-mail & even on teh phone for probably 4 or 5 years, so I know where he's coming from & what he enjoys about Rodbuilding. THere's nothing wrong with the way you build rods, tehre is nothing wrong with teh guys who build 1,000 rods a year all teh same, there's nothing wrong with Jim Upton spending 90 hours on a weave. What I think stinks, is the guys who are into teh decorative aspect of rodbuilding, and are very talented - have to settle to wrap rods for other people who don't want to pay the money for a rod done up like this.

I get teh same "there's no reason for all that" on a rod crap all teh time. From other builders who cannot do it, to fishermen who won't pay more than $100 for a rod. Just for them, my latest project is a rod with no trim, no butt wrap, just plain as day guide wraps, reel seat & guides. Just to show the naysayers that a person who builds decked out rods, can build a higly functional rod which performs. Of course, I couldn't use regular components - I had to order some components from Japan, a Red GUSA blank, some carbon fiber tubing handles - which will allow me to express myself somewhat because 100% function & no glitz is not Billy 40.

How many of you people build "Custom Rods" full time? Jesse