Have been working with static guide placement using the library article info. I'm working on a Dan Craft Sig V 905-3, and came up with a placement that I think follows the curve of the blank nicely. This particular blank has very little bend in the first 12-14 inches or so with a light or heavy load applied to the blank., and I came up with the first two guides at 6" and 12.5". Most standard guide charts have more guides packed together near the tip.
Is there a risk to the blank I may encounter with this set up? I ended up with 9 guides plus tip(Fuji TLSG 6's.) My goal is to have fewer guides on the tip section if possible, to preserve the fast recovery. Thanks in advance for any advice or input,

Dave Chapman

to my knowledge dave this is going to cause more bend to the rod under fish load i usually run about 4 on first and 81/2 to 9 on the next but thats me will see what others got to say.......

Dave
From the static guide placement sys. in the library. "first guide behind the tip (4 inches or so for most lighter rods and 5 or maybe 6 for heavier rods or surf types)."

on lighter tip sections there is a lot of stress on a small diameter blank so the guide is moved up to 4inches or so from the tip top to keep from breaking the rod. If it's a heavier tip section then you can move back to 5" or so for the tip top surf rods 6"

floyd

I guess I misunderstood that once the first guide is placed, it is not moved. I figured that since the blank was not bending with the guide at six inches that the blank was not showing much stress. The bend began farther up the blank. Thanks for the help , Floyd.

Just did some more experimenting and found something interesting. When I applied a load to the blank, i.e. lifted up on a heavy object tied to the tip, that by the time even a moderate load was put on the blank all the bend was at the 1/3 point up the blank and the first 16 inches or so of blank was pointing in a straight line diectly toward the weight. Would this mean that there would not be much "rod breaking" stress in that tip area? Would seem that the stressed area prone to breakage would be at the 1/3 point where most of the bend was taking place. Would somebody kindly point out the fault in my thinking if I'm off track here? I'm new to rodbuilding and I've only built about twenty flyrods mostly using St. Croix charts, but I find static guide placement interesting and I enjoy experimenting, but not at the cost of breaking rods. thanks,
Dave Chapman

dan craft offers guide spacing measurements for the various blanks he offers. you might want to contact him.

eric
fresno, ca.

David-

Based on my limited experience (building rods for myself and others for the last 2 years and fishing the rods I have built heavily) I discovered the same thing about the first couple guides when doing a static test. Most of the stress (ie bend on the rod under load) seems to be back of the 2 or 3 guide in most cases. When spacing I use the suggested guide placement and then go from there. Although I haven't gone extreme with the movement of the first guide, I have placed it back between an 1" to 1.5" of what the suggested spacing indicated without a problem. It would greatly depend on the "action" of the rod (tip flex versus full flex would have different characteristics and needs in this regard).

In summary, I have adjusted the first and second guides on fly rods ranging from 2 wts to 7 wts down from a .5 to 1.5" without effect on performance and certainly never a broken rod.

Domenic

One concern you may have though, is "line stickage" when the spacing is too far off between the tip top and first guide. Meaning the line tends to shift over and next too the blank itself. The first guide will keep the gap between the tip and itself down and thus eliminate the possibility of a slight loop or slack forming and this occcurring.

Domenic

This is interesting as I am in the process of building a rod that has guides that are spaced much differently than any spacing charts and I have one less guide also. The spacing that I am using from static testing also has the second guide placed about 5 inches off the tip and the rest are spaced from there, concentrating the rest in the same fashion as David has pointed out. Keep the suggestions coming as I am very interested in the outcome of this thread.

I am going to go ahead and wrap and fish mine like this- if it breaks I will have learned a valuable lesson, if not I have also learned a valuable lesson.

David, in my experience, 4" and 9" seem to protect even the softest tips (AA over 70) and 5" and 11" is adequate to protect the tip of a blank with AA in the 60 or under range. I have never broken a rod tip from casting or fish fighting though so I'm not sure I have pushed the limit at all. 6" and 12.5" seems a little too far apart to me but if it works then it works and your rod tip will be lighter and more responsive for it. Lightness and crispness is the hallmark of that blank you are building on so you may be onto something.

Thanks for all the responses, they are all very helpful. I called Dan Craft today and we talked about it. I've decided to try and go a little closer to 5.5" and 11.5" for the first two guides. Problem is I may not be able to keep only 5 guides on the tip section with this spacing; we'll see.

Dave Chapman

Steve, that is an interesting point that you made about never having broken a rod tip thru fish fighting or casting. I wonder if anybody out there has broken a tip this way, especially if the first guide was farther back than "standard'.

To quote Tom's book:

"Again, the tip-most guide should not be located farther back than 4-5 inches from the tip. In fact, I'd almost go so far as to suggest you put it 4 inches behind the tip and leave it at that." Pg27



Joe <*}(({{>>{

I guess Tom must have some experience with negative consequences of placing the first guide farther away than 4 inches.

That is the thinest part. It has to be prtected from breaking. Too far back and the tip may tend to snap, stress

On fly rods and ultra-light spinning I usually place the first four guides from the tip at 4, 5, 6 and 7 in. and then flex the blank and adjust from there. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

On my first I go 4 then I may add 1/4-1/2 to 3/4" depending on blank and how many guides and how it flexes.