I have been using Flex Coat High Build and have spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with bubbles. It is driving me nuts(short trip in case you wanted to know). Anyone got any suggestions on a finish that will have a fairly decent build and not be such a hassle with bubbles? I have built some rods in the very distant past and used the version of flex coat that was out there then and had no problems with bubbles at all.

I picked up the high build version because it stated that all you will ever need is one coat. Well that is not anywhere near true. I wind up have to do 3 coats to get a decent build and be somewhat bubble free. 1 very thin coat to seal the threads and a 2nd coat to give it some build(wind up popping bubbles for 45 minutes and still find more after it cures) and a 3rd thin coat to cover after I cut bubble and sand smooth.

I have tried all the tips that I have found here, put the bottles in some warm water before mixing to thin a bit, pour it out on foil hit with low heat and let it sits for 5-10 minutes to let the bubbles come out and then apply and hit with heat again to bring the bubbles to the top and pop. All have helped somewhat but I still have them dang bubbles.

I would like to bypass the trial and error portion of finding something that works. Anyone got anything that really works???

Your help may save my sanity :-)

LS Supreme high build may be just the ticket for you. Good bubble release and a little higher build than Flex Coat regular. It's thick as all get out in the cup, but don't worry, you can apply it thinly if you wish, or go for true one-coat coverage. Do read the instructions that come with each LS kit.

Do keep in mind that you need to do all you can on your end to keep bubble formation to a minimum.

..............

Scott,

Trust me when I tell you that the Flexcoat is not your problem. The problem is you as harsh as it sounds, you are doing something wrong with your technique when using the product. Yes Flexcoat high build is a one coat product and if handled properly will give you a deep, level one coat finish. I have been doing it for many many years with outstanding results. Trust me one more time when I tell you if Flexcoat gives you problems you will certainly also have problems with any other finish. Changing products seldom changes anything. Sorry about being on a soap box, but I get really ticked off when I hear an excellent product being bad mouthed.

Later,
Gerald Mc

Gerald I would buy that if I hadn't had much better success with other products in the past. I you read my post a little better you will see that I have used other versions of Flex Coat with good success. The only time I have had problems with bubbles is with High build.

On the other hand I would appreciate any suggestions you may have to better my techniques, I am always ready to learn something new.

Without seeing your technique, it's a bit hard to put a handle on. The only thing I can think of is that you're doing a bit too much brushing, which creates bubbles, and then taking a bit too long to get everything coated. The longer it takes to coat all the wraps, the further along in the setting process the finish has gone and thus the less likely it will be to fully release those bubbles. So you can brush less and finish things up quicker, or seek out something with a longer pot or working life. Again, I haven't seen you apply finish so these are only my assumptions and they may not accurate in your particular case.

Flex Coat is an excellent product - I've used it for years and gotten the exact results that Gerald talks about. But I only spend maybe, 5 or 10 minutes to coat all the wraps on most rods. It's still liquid enough at that time to easily release any bubbles with just a little heat.

I still think you should give LS Supreme High Build a try. It has a long pot life (about 30 to 40 minutes at room temp) and is quite good at self releasing bubbles. And I'd make myself a mechanical mixer so that I could start with a bubble free mix to begin with. But be warned, the LS High Build is so thick, you'll need to almost double the size/weight of the recommended mixing ball to keep things mixing properly.

Just some ideas to consider.

......................

I'm with Gerald on this one. I've used FC high build nearly exclusively for many years and with one exception, have never had problems with bubbles. The one exception was when I tried a different application technique as an experiment.

I mix in a cup, pour it onto a foil lined tray, blow out the bubbles and apply. Never had to use more than one coat on wraps. If the thread is sealed and there are no bubbles in the FC when you start, the only way to get bubbles is if you put them there during application. I may get one or two bubbles per wrap but a quick breath or wave of a bic takes care of them.

Recently, after about a dozen uses, I've finally figured out how to use LS. It releases bubbles well, which is good because no matter what I do, I cannot get a bubble free mix. If you do try it, don't try to use it the same way you use FC. That's what my mistake has always been with it. As Tom said, it is very thick. Best example I can think of is that FC is like pancake syrup. LS is like corn syrup. You have to let LS sit on the wraps much longer than FC before you wick away the excess. Give it much more time to settle than you do with FC or you'll wind up with waves. When you actually let it do what it wants, instead of trying to make it do what you want, it's a very good finish. First time I've been able to say something good about LS. Problems I've always had with it were my own creation.

I have used the old regular Flex Coat and Flex Coat lite and had it work good for me so I am not saying that Flex Coat itself is a bad product, I may even have a bad batch of the stuff.

Ok guys here is how I work with the finish, if you see what I am doing wrong let me know.
1 let the bottles sit in warm water for 5 minute to warm and thin out.
2 measure exact same amount with syringes and squirt in a cup.
3 mix in the cup for 2 to 3 minutes.
4 pour out on a flat piece of tin foil and let it flow out and hit with a heat gun on low heat to help release bubbles.
5 after I let it sit for a few minutes I start brushing it on length ways along the wraps. I have never timed it but probably 5 - 10 minutes give or take.
6 then I go back and check for low or high spots and look for bubbles.
7 correct anything I see wrong and let it turn for about 10 minutes and check again.

This is pretty much what I have learned from reading tips on this forum.

Heck with the old stuff and the lite, I would just measure it equal and mixed it right on the foil and apply and it was all over, no bubbles.

I see a couple things possibly wrong. With all the heat you apply, the time on the foil and the 10 minutes to apply might be too long. With the pre-heating and then re-heating of the mix on the foil, you're raising the finish temp and speeding the cure. And, as the mix becomes thicker, it's less able to release bubbles.

I would stop the lengthwise brushing - that creates bubbles. (It's sometimes necessary on long inscription areas, but seldom needed on wraps.) Load the brush and hold it just above the wrap. Lower it to the wrap and rotate the rod underneath it.

The lite version will release bubbles easier due to the fact that it's thinner. It's just easier for any bubbles to rise up and out of the finish layer.

Also, you would benefit greatly from the mechanical mixer. With it, you will have no need to heat the mix on your foil as there won't be any bubbles from the mixing process to begin with.

..............

I would have to say that it is how you are putting it on the wraps. You don't want to brush it so much as you want to "pour" it on. If your brush even gets close to touching the rod, you don't have enough finish loaded. Also, a brush by nature will introduce bubbles. You have to make sure that the brush is thoroughly loaded with finish to drive out it's own bubbles, then use it to basically "scoop" up finish. Let the brush "drain" finish onto the wrap. Then when you are moving finish around, touch just the surface and tease it where you want it to go. Let it sag, wick the sags off and that's it. In fact, the way I do finish, if when I am done coating, if finish is not literally starting to drip off the bottom side, I didn't put enough on.

I still use a brush at times, but I find a spatula is much better. The times when I get the occasional bubbles are when I use a brush.

Mike is right on about leaving it alone & letting it sag. That's the method I use. I load up the wrap pretty good to be sure everything is covered. I then let the blank sit with the guides up (or sideways on a spiral rod). I'm sure to have a length of foil under the rod because I'm going to have finish dripping off the wraps. When I get a good sag/drip going I wick (sometimes brush) the excess epoxy off the underside of the wraps. Some people then rotate the rod 180 and let the finish sag on the other side, but I usually will leave the rod alone for another minute or two and remove an additional sagging. Usually this is all I do. After I remove the excess epoxy I place in the dryer or simply begin turning by hand in increasing intervals.

I used to use LS reg & high build (and still do on occasion as I still have some on hand). With the LS I would have some bubble problems that I didn't like. I have now settles on Aftcote and plan on sticking with it. It is not a high build finish, but I seem to get good coverage with 3-4 coats on heavy saltwater rods. It has tremendous pot life and literally HATES bubbles. It spits bubbles out with avengance. Aftcote levels beautifully with the sag method I mentioned above and it gives me the most bubble free finish I've been able to get from any product I've used to date.

Best of luck.

Jay

if it was me, i would consider it a personal challenge to get it to work, since others find it successful. but after 2-3 times, i'd move on. why did you move to high build in the first place if you had other formulas working for you? i ask this with complete sincerity and not trying to be a smart ass. :-)

as others have said the several applications of heat could be your problem; i notice it getting thicker within 20 minutes. once mixed in a cup and flowed out onto foil, instead of applying heat again, try simply blowing on it or using a straw to direct the air. and i've begun using a "spatula" method of application.

has anyone used pacific bay's finish? i haven't seen it listed on any web sites yet but haven't search thoroughly either. i know one FINE rod builder who uses it and gives a thumbs up whihc is very encouraging and although it may seem like i'm going against my own suggestion (flex coat lite works fine for me ;-) i'm planning on trying it someday. i'm just curious, especially since i like many other offerings from PB.

eric
fresno, ca.

I guess I moved to the high build cuz it said one coat and I wanted to get a little better build up on the threads, especially butt wraps.

The heat thing was something I picked on the forum here and figured I would try it, it helps to get rid of the bubbles, but it sounds like it is causing some problems later on. Actually most of the steps I use I have got from the forum here.

I am really unclear of how to use a spatula to apply finish, but I am going to try and just use the brush to scoop it on with the next rod I have to do. I never thought of just gobbing it on and letting it ooze off the other side.

It would seem that some of the techniques I use are more suitable for a lite or low build epoxy.

HHHMMMM learn something new everyday eh!!

It sounds like every one is on the same wave length. I have use FC for years. and other finishing products as well. Here is a few tips I have done to eliminate bubbles. I make sure my room temperature is around 70 to 75 %, I do not put the finishes on near a window (believe it or not a window can cause a slight temperature change and this will cause bubbles if done at night, Air conditioner drafts well give you a bunch of bubbles. I always warm my 2 parts in warm water or 15 seconds in the in the nuke plant. I use one oz. plastic cups that has graduated measuring marks. I slowly mix for 5 min. let set for 2 minutes at that point if I see micro bubbles I put 2 to 3 drops from a eye dropper of Acetone to break up the bubble. (this was recommenced by Flex Coat a few years back). Don't over do with the Acetone . The Acetone will also retard the drying time, to much and the stuff well never dry.. I have found over the years that just a couple of drops of Acetone even brightens the finish. I have also ruined finishes by adding 6 drops of Acetone to a one oz cup mixture. One other thought on bubbles is. Is the area where you live have a high humidity. you well find humidity well give you a lot more bubbles than a dry arid area . If you have done all this before and still get bubbles call or email Flex Coat
Good Wraps Bob

Some things are worth saying twice, so I'll repeat some points made in posts above that seem especially important: (1) A spatula is less likely to introduce bubbles than a brush. (2) Don't let your tool touch the wrap; hold the loaded tool over (or under) the wrap while you rotate it (which I do by hand), bring the epoxy in contact with the wrap and let it transfer itself as you rotate. (3) Don't brush (though it's ok to gently "push" the epoxy a bit as needed). (4) Let the flow of the epoxy itself do practically all of the work.

I don't use a spatula myself, but supposedly it is the correct tool for applying casting resins which our epoxy finishes are.

.................

I had the same problem many years age and a rod builder friend said use my wfe's hair dryer on high to bring the bubbles to the top and disburse them. This also forces the finish into all spaces between guilde , thread and rod. Also use it to thin finish on smaller rods and tips.

Adding heat before applying FC to the rod (wraps, inscription areas, etc) just makes the working time less. Use your breath to bust the bubbles after it's mixed. Adding heat starts the set up quicker and lessens chances of releasing the bubbles in the end run. That said, FC is a great finish and most find it easy to work with.

Pac Bay's finish is a very good finish also. I haven't used it a lot (I still like the 1 Coat best and tend to stick with it), but I like this finish and find it easy to work with also.

I'd stay away from any introduced air currents around finish. Hair dryers and fans in the work room will just get dust, hair, and lint moving around and it'll eventually get into your finish. It won't happen every time, but it's not worth it because it will eventually cause problems in finishing. Blowing through a straw or huffing right on the finish is a better way than using a 'fan' around finish.

Putter
Williston, ND

If you're really looking to change brands of finish, I'd consider trying Glass Coat. I'm no expert, but I've had zero problems w/ bubbles, using a brush. It does have a short pot-life, so put it on and start the turning.

I agree with Jerry. I have used Flex Coat and LS Supreme and like them both. I have just started using Glass Coat and it is excellent. The bubble release is very good and the only problem is getting used to the shorter pot life. As Tom says above if you take too much time can get problems. Glass Coat teaches you to move a little faster and not brush as much.

I agrre with using heat to break air bubbles. I would not use a hair dryer tho, because you could blow containates in to your finish. I use a alcohal lamp or a small butane torch. I also look at the under side and remove any excess finish that builds up on the underside, using horizonal strokrd
Good Wraps Bob