Have a re-build waiting to be done. the fellow wants Concept style rings, and has been looking at Alconite, Hardloy and the newer AlOx rings from Fuji. He's looking to fish with braided line. I recommended the Alconites, having used them, but he's looking for a slightly cheaper option, hence the question about the AlOx and Hardloys. I personally have only just seen these newer AlOx rings ('O' designation, fly guides and high frame Y guides), and want to know how suitable they would be for use with braid. Are they harder or softer than Hardloy. I've always maintained Hardloy as the cheapest braid resistant rings. can the new AlOX ones be used instead, and how do they compare pricewise?

Ted, for what it is worth.

I tried to reply earlier, but I goofed on the signature and did not log in.

Alconite vs Hardloy:

Regardless of adverts, Hardloys, on the whole are really lighter. I weight each comparative size on a digital powder scale. Alconites may have a lighter ring, I do not know, but they are taller and heavier in the largers sizes. They are nearly the same in the smaller 7 to 10 sizes by grams difference.

Hardloys are also lower, which I prefer for practical reasons, use, inserting in cases, and matching reel heights on the smaller rods. The Alconites are way high and I do not think that the added height makes a bit of difference, on the water, particularly if you use the "Concept" method, or a variation of it.

Moreover, I doubt if you fished either 8 hours a day for 10 years, you would wear either of the guide ring material out, regardless of line, mono or modern woven wonderline.

Am assuming you will replace the older guides where the originals were.

In general, when I craft a rod, I use TK's reel-axis-to-rod-along-the-bench idea, but with a bit of a twist, as I began using a similar method some years ago. I guesstimate the pinch point to be about a third up the rod length and adjust. I use two (3 at most) butt guides to get to that point and go with all the same after say, a 20, 16 butt guide et-up and all 7s or 8s after, including TT. I generally do not use a constant space of 5 inches as TK suggests after the pinch point, though it works, but prefer to spread them out a bit more (say 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch more) for each guide back down from the TT, to reduce number needed which makes the top section(s) lighter.

On a fly rod, it is different, one to three #10s, in a 3-guide butt set, and then all 7s or 8s including TT.

I was taken in by the newer Alconite guide hype and some friendly intended advice, but have concluded it is not worth it. I will try anything a couple of times, and am back to using Hardloy over any other material for practical and cost reasons.

Hive

I'll be looking to use the high frame guides and fly guides. In hardloy, these would be BYLG and BLG. The newer AlOx guides have the designation BYOG and BOG, also available in chrome finish (YOG and OG). Funny you don't find the added height to make any difference. To me it makes a sharp difference when you consider the ring diameters, especially on smaller rods. You can use a smaller ring, and thus get the line flow under control quicker.

I honestly have not seen a difference on a spin rod. On really short rods, say under 5', I begin with a 30 or 25 Hardloy butt guide and travel down sizes gradually, using 5 guides including TT. The large guide is lighter but high enough to be efficient, but a 20 or 16 is as efficient tossing 1/32 metal, that is sure, as I do lots of light spin for browns hereabouts.

Also, the distance from the reel foot to the center of the spool is not standardized, and I use different reels on the same rods, depending on angling.

Now, for the longer float rods, say 8 to 14', a #25 or 20 beginning butt guide is out far enough to not be as critical, though a 30 does as well, as does a 16 - depending on reel - and all line up perfectly with the butt guides at that distance. Here we are also hanging light or mediaum reels on rods.

And, with a pinch point at "x," distance from the reel, I honestly see more weight for no gain, but that is, of course, my take on it from a practical point of view.

Having written all the above, if there is a difference, can it be all that much? So, I really don't get too excited about it, save that I found no profound reason to change. I make them both ways but lean toward Hardloy if a choice is there.

It is more like installing a "tip-top" versus a single footer at top. Both work, but... No biggie, to me, either way, but maybe the later is more practical but less conventional. It is not as significant the difference, say, as in changing to singles with a 3-guide butt set on a fly rod, where cast distance is extended with same effort and easier.

H

Hive

Thanks for the replies Robert. The guide sizes I can work out easily, as i have reel info and all. It's price vs durability I'm calling on. If anyone can give me an answer, I'll appreciate it. Just want to know how the newer AlOx compares to hardloy in terms of hardness and durability. they are basically the same material, but i think hardloy is a higher grade still. The rings on the AlOx look thinner though.

Ted,

You reminded me about something and there might be the rub, if "total" durability is the end you have in mind.

It seems I read somewhere that the Alconites are "deeper" so attach to the ring better, or the rings have a larger groove and the bonds is greater; and why they look thinner?

Still, after using Hardloys since early 80s with no failures, perhaps it is not that important.

As to guide sizes, your choice, always; but I would surely take a glance at Tom Kirkman's comments on "Concept" guide placement using the edge of table measurement. It makes the process extremely simple and one can alter as desired...common sense generally trumps tradition!

I hope this helps. If you are looking for decent sources for Fuji guides, I may have a couple listed here and there.

Why am I not fishing?

Hive

Thanks again Robert. I use TK's setup exclusively now, after experiencing the performance benefits first hand. I use both "V" guides in conjunction with fly guides, and Fuji high frames and fly guides. I trick my light tackle builds out by bringing the line close to the blank in just 3 guides. My experience has shown that with the lighter rods, it works just as well as in 4 guides. The line follows the blank more closely for more of it's length when under load too.

Ted,

Very neat. Will give that a shot on next short rod. Aslo appreciated the info you obtained from Fuji. I tend to build them as you do, but occasionally move off a bit to displace idle inventory or please user. Thanks.




Hive