Buddy,

GREAT answer - enjoyed reading it. Of course, for a newbie builder, a bit intimidating to see all that work to get a 'superior' product. Still, good line of reasoning.

Mo

I couldn't have seen the "recent" article on guide feet prep as I just received my first issue of the magazine.
Jim Williams

I go about it just like Buddy does. Shorten the feet slightly, then get a nice even transition. I use my Dremel to get sharp edges, but then i run the diamond file on my Leatherman tool over the edges to take the keenness off. I also use the diamond file to smooth the rough surface of the ground area.

Those nylon bolts also have a " V " or recessed head on certain bolts. It holds them just a little better.
The V fits right into the ring nicely

As much as I hate prepping guides, I'll take Bill up on his offer and we'll add a guide prep demo in Charlotte next year. With the right tools and techniques, it's really not that hard.

............

Mo,
Don't be intimidated. It's not a lot of work at all, it's just a bit tedious when you have to get something out the door. I see it as something like guide wraps. After the first one, it's just menial labor. No creativity involved, and no "feel good" payoff when you are done beyond knowing that you did good. Between rods, I do like to pull out guides from my stash and work on them with a file. It's sort of relaxing. I have to admit though that on many of my own rods, I don't do nearly enough work on guides. Stuff I make for other people is good stuff. Stuff I make for myself is pretty much crap. I keep hoping that someday I'll actually make myself a nice rod instead of jury-rigged experiments. Kinda sad huh? lol

While everyone is enjoying their great dinner, the chef sits in a corner eating a peanut butter sammich.

Tom,

I read your recent article and have been meaning to tell you THANKS. I had been using a Dremel (hand held) and never felt like I had very good control while grinding the feet. After reading the article, I've used a sanding disc for the last two rods I've built and the difference to me is AMAZING. I now feel like I have much more precise control of the finished product. Plus, it goes MUCH quicker. I did stick with the Dremel for the final "deburring" step - I picked up one of their #511 Abrasive Buffs (I used the silicon carbide/medium one). It seems to work fine and I was able to pick it up at local hardware superstore.

Thanks again for the great articles - seems like each rod I do gets a little better as a result!!!

Get a Unified Wheel from Bingham and your polishing step will go just that much faster. It's a 2 or 3 second operation with that particular wheel.

.............

I have to agree with Fred. I formerly did all my guides with a dremel. Granted, it's better and quicker than hand filing everything, but it's awfully tricky to get the right angles, right amount of pressure, etc. And then, I still ended up with little gouges in the guide feet, unsmooth surface, etc.

Then, I went to Walmart, bought a cheap 5" sanding disc on a mandrel, and some cheap PSA 110 grit sandpaper to fit, for a total of about $7. I chucked it in my lathe (a hand drill on some sort of support would work as well), and used hemostats to hold the guides while I grind. The difference is phenomenal! I have absolute control over how the guide feet end up looking. I can get nice shallow tapers on either side, and it's all smooth (unlike the dremel). It takes a little practice (i.e. very little--like two guides) to get even filing on both sides of the guide. I can't believe I ever did it any other way. This set-up is BY FAR the best guide-grinding set-up I've ever seen/used. I've learned an enormous amount from Rodmaker magazine, but the article detailing this guide-grinding set-up has had more practical impact than any other. Thanks to Tom for printing it.

As I've often said, you'll never get from this or any other rod building website what you can get from RodMaker Magazine. Two totally different mediums.

Those who are willing to spend just a bit more, could look into one of the fairly inexpensive stand up belt type sanders. I bought a cheap Delta model with a 1 inch by 40 something inch belt some years back and use it for nothing but prepping guides. Because of their length and therefore greater surface area, the belts last longer than the standard 6 inch disks chucked into a lathe or drill will. But both will do the same job in the same amount of time. Even the disk that Andrew mentions should last for a few sets of guides.

................

Tom, I'm glad to hear that you use a 1" belt sander for guide prep. I have one of these that I use for golf club building (yes, I like to build stuff), and I figured that it would work well for guide work.

OK, after all this fun reading, I'm going to cop out a bit.

Years ago when I built, I never even heard of prepping the foot and just wrapped. Worked. But with Tom's 'Rod Building Guide' book and this site, I'm learning in 'bunches'

So here's the cop out having never actually seen a bare 'beautifully perpared guide' in person: Is there anyone here who will be willing to prep my guides for a fee? Yup, a bit of a cop out but right now, not set up with the tools you guys mentioned. (My dremel is still buried somewhere deep in the packing boxes after we moved. )

If so, please e-mail learningcycle@aol.com with a quote.

My guides would be titanium framed (titans probably) and in the usual sizes - size 20,16,12,10,8 for single spin, and 6 for fly.

Tom, hope this query doesn't get me laughed off the forum.....:)

Thanks,
Mo

Mo. i went to my neighborhood harbor freight tool store and bought a blue vinyl folding packet with about 20 small files of various shapes for about $3, grey plastic handles. they're cheap but work. i also have a larger file which i occasionally use in combination, but seriously, you don't need the power tools mentioned above. they're nice and i might get a dremel for father's day if my family learns to read my mind, but that stuff isn't necessary.

by the way, the recent magazine issue some have referred to has very nice large black and white macro photos of guide feet if my memory serves me correctly, one untouched, the other correctly prepped. order it.

eric
fresno, ca.

Check out "Tackle Works" in the sponsors list on the left or just click on the "Directory" button at the top of this page and maybe you can find a builder close to you that would do it.

If you have a Dremel packed away get it out and prep the guides yourself. If you are just getting started building rod there is no time like now to start. You will soon become addicted to rod building and you might as well grind your own guides. Just MHO
Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2005 06:14PM by Bob Crook.

Mo: Now we'll really confuse you......are you sure you want to go with the "usual sizes" for the spinning guides???? As long as you take the extra step to prep the guides, and, yes, you can do it with just a file, why not go all the way and set it up using the Concept system??

I will issue receipts and will have change for a $ 100 bill. Sorry, but I will be unable to process credit cards on the Charlotte Show floor.

Come See Kirkman Grind and Buff while I make change!

Gon Fishn

Thanks for so many of you who responded to my query. Really appreciate this.

In no particular order:
1. Yes, I'm using the concept system. 20,16,10,6,6,6,6,6 OR 20, 16, 8, 5,5,5,5,5 - haven't decided yet.
2. Yes, will break out the dremel eventually but right now, having the blank, guides, handles etc - I'm raring to go and wanted to bypass the dressing the feet for this time if possible - hence asking for help.
3. Eric, thanks for the Harbor Freight tip.

By the way, I do have Tom's book which shows a guide feet prepped but you guys are talking about thinning it on the sides and feet, not just the tip of the feet.

Thanks again to all.
Mo

If you are using the concept system won't the system determine what the guide sizes will be instead of you???? I'm curious to know how you would determine what the guide sizes should be. I thought the system determined that when you set it up.

The New Concept Guides and the New Guide Concept are two distinct things. You are correct - the guide sizing will be determined by the set-up, not by the builder. At least if you are properly setting up the New Guide Concept System. I'll post a photo in the gallery in just a bit to show how the system should look when properly set up and sighting down through the butt guide.

The book I did for Amato showed the use of a file for guide foot prepping. This was done for a singular, and good, reason. Most builders will find that they have a file in their shops already. Thus, they don't need to go out and buy any additional equipment, much less power equipment. But if you use a file you should heed the filing directions I gave in that chapter. It will make a world of difference.

It's common to narrow the foot, or shorten it, to make it fit your specific blank. I know this is a bit scary for some, but once you've done a few and gain confidence that you're not going to ruin the guide it becomes fairly routine.


....................

Wow, what a lot of discussion about this topic! An additional concern that I have about foot filing is that with coated guides, e.g., TiCh or black, when I grind the foot I also remove the coating. This creates a not-so-nice shiny area that is noticably different from the rest of the guide, and shows up through the finished wraps. I have used a black Sharpie on the black guides, but it's still noticeable; I haven't found anything suitable to disguise the grinding on the TiCH feet. I have to choose between a perfectly smooth taper from grinding and a off-color finished wrap. That is, unless you have a different idea for solving this compound problem...

Jim