I read a book. It showed snake guide feet sorta long and rectangular. He filed them down to look better. I filed all mine down and taped them on. Ready to wrap thread. I looked at my Orvis 9' 6wt guides. There's so much epoxy on each foot you cannot even see the thread, let alone the guide foot. I feel like I wasted my time filing down each foot, and made it more difficult to sit the guide on the rod and tape it on. I look in that book, you can see his threads, even the thread pulled under to secure. Does the amount of epoxy on each foot affect the rod action, and just how much is just enough, and how much is over kill?

JIm Williams

Excess epoxy will definately have negative effects on rod performance. Most factory bought rods will very likely have way too much epoxy because it is easy and quick to just add a large amount then set them turning. For your own rods you should use just enough epoxy to get a smooth finish over the treads.


Mark

You didn't waste your time filing down the feet. Filing is part of proper guide foot preparation. You need it for strength and durability as well as ease of thread wrapping.

As far as being able to see the individual threads as well as the underwraped tag end, He may have not use color preservative. Some builders don't and that is the "look" their after. They want to show off the guide feet through the threads.

Factory built rods are based on production quota's. Sometimes, quality becomes job two. Speed of production is the trade-off. Gooping it on good for a one coat speed applications can be paramount for some. I prefer the flex coat light look on most of the rods I build. First coat is just enought to seal the thread wrap. Second adds a little filler to the gaps, tunnels, and guide foot area. The third is for the gloss look. When it is all said and done, they come out even, smoothe, and sharp looking IMHO.

I was never one to like the football blob look on the guides. I strive not to duplicate this look even when using High Build to cut out one of the three coats I tend to favor with the lite mix.

Domenic Federico

I replied but wasn't logged in. Guess it isn't going to get posted. So.....nuther reply. Appreciate the answers and Domenic, the "football" shaped feet is exackery what mine look like, excellent description. Nuther question though, I also read you can seal the guide feet three ways. Varnish, epoxy, or Color Preserver/Sealer (3 coats). The pics I saw in L.A. Garcia's book, "How to Build a Graphite Fly Rod" showed the varnish method almost totally darkening and hiding the two colored thread. The epoxy also darkened but showed more of the two thread color. The 3 coats of Color Preserver/Sealer looked great. I liked that look. Is that all one needs to use when not using the varnish or epoxy method.......using the 3 coats of color preserver is ALL you have to apply? Nothing else?

Thanks for taking the time to answer. A person could spend a million years and dollars in trial and error only to find out something someone else could have told them many many hours and dollars ago. Thank you guys that bother to help.

Jim Williams

Jim:

You do not have to coat the threads at all. However, the epoxy coating protects the thread wraps from damage. It does not add strength, as that comes from the thread wraps. The epoxy coating does add gloss as well. Most of us use one of the popular thread finishes on our graphite rods. On Bamboo rods, however, the traditional thread finish is varnish.

Doug Weber
Weber Rod Works

Jim,

I don't think that you understand the purpose of Color Preserver. It's Not a thread finish. Some love it some hate it!! The reason that you use it is to keep the thread the same color as it was on the spool after finish is applied. Many don't use it because they prefer the translucence and darkening of the thread and being able to see the guide feet under it.

Mike

Perhaps I don't understand color preserver, but I think I do. It is to preserve the color of the thread. But, L.A.Garcia's book, page 34.....he states he does prefer using Color Preserver and Thread Sealer from Roger Seiders at Flex Coat. Then shows a picture.....and states.....of the three examples:

"In the next photograph the wraps are identical, that is a black wrap with a gold trim. The wrap on the left was done with 1 coat of varnish, the one in the middle with 1 coat of Flex Coat epoxy, and the one on the right with 3 coats of sealer. Decide on the one you like best and go with it. I want a colour differentiation between the 2 threads and get the results I want by using thread sealer. It is difficult to tell how many coats you will need. If you decide on varnish consider applying 2 protecting coats of varnish. If you decide on epoxy consider applying 1 protecting coat of epoxy. If you decide on Flex Coat thread sealer consider applying 2 to 3 coats. The sealer will have a glossy appearance. "

If one reads just the above it CAN lead you to think three coats of thread color and sealer is all you need on the last option. So you can see how one could get the impression 3 coats of sealer is all you need for that choice.

BUT...your point I don't know what I am talking about forced me to re-read it. You are correct. Gawd I hate saying that. I didn't know what I was talking about. Now that you made me find my answer I do. Thank you for that. The second paragraph on that page says "Whether you use varnish followed by epoxy, epoxy over epoxy, OR THREAD SEALER FOLLOWED BY EPOXY, your choice is a personal one.

Furthermore page 35 third paragraph states: "Whether or not you use varnish only, epoxy only or thread sealer for the INITIAL coat of finish, this step will be the same; that is THE FINAL COAT SHOULD BE EPOXY. It produces a glossy coat whose surfacxe is hard and lasting."

Done deal. Thank you Mr. Barkley. I understand now. You done good. <grin>

See, this wasn't near as hard as the spine question.

Thanks Mike. Your message actually helped me know what I want to know, adn make up my mind on how I want to do mine.

Thanks again.

Jim Williams
as always, apologize for length of message

Jim-

Another thing to consider, are you using NCP (NO COLOR PRESERVATIVE NEEDED) thread or not? If you use, ncp, you don't really need a color preservative to keep the thread bright and non-translucent. But, I have heard or as I understand what I heard, you could use one coat of color preservative followed your epoxy coats to keep the thread color permanents on both kinds of thread types against UV rays for the long haul.

Its up to you and how you like it. I have always used the NCP thread, flex coat lite X3 method.

Good luck,
Domenic

Domenic,
Now that I think I know how to finish it, you raise the other issue I have. But I know what to do. The thing is I don't know if my thread is NCP or not. Sooooo......I am going to use color preserver and then epoxy it.
Thanks Domenic

Jim
You guys are so cool.

Jim,

I certainly wasn't implying that you don't know what you are talking about!! Hope you didn't take it that way!! One thing about NCP thread is that it lacks the brilliance/sparkle of regular and, IMO, looks more like a coat of flat paint (I'm sure many will disagree)

Since you are obviously going to become addicted, you might consider picking up a copy O Rodbuilding Guide by Tom Kirkman. It is the most current book out and the best $15 you'll spend

Mike

No Mike, I didn't take it wrong, I took it at face value and went back and re-read....uh....what I read. And that is when I found I skipped or missed the point it is indeed not a finish. The way he wrote the book I thought he was saying he just used three coats of color preserver and by using three coats he didn't need the epoxy. I fully understand the whole deal now thanks to you.....above l typed from the book to sorta explain why I got it wrong. But I got it right now, and in a round about way was trying to compliment you on prodding me into finding out for real what I wanted to know, and also it stopped me from making a big mistake on 10 snake guides meaning 20 guide feet done wrong! I still thank you for that. Thanks for the tip on using non NCP thread. It makes sense to me. I have only Garcia's book to go by for now. Ordered RodMaker mag but it will take a while to get it. I know I need to get Tom's book.

Thanks again Mike, 'tis good information and appreciated.

Jim

Welcome to the "obsession" This is the place to get help! What's great is that you'll get all sides/opinions on the subject One sure thing about rodbuilding (aside from the addictive qualities) is that there is rarely only one right way of doing anything!!

Mike