Hi to all, and thanks for making this site such a wonderful resource. I have been a lurker for about a year, and in that time have built about a dozen fly rods--leaning heavily on what I learn here!

What tips and tricks do you have for guide placement? I usually eyeball the curve under a static load, and that seems to work OK. My only concern is: I don't know what I don't know!

For example, I recently read a thread here about putting a guide over the ferrule whenever possible--I never would have thought of that. That got me wondering... what else am I missing?

If nothing comes to mind, any great books out there that aspiring novices should read? Any must-know tips for going from making good rods to making great rods?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

John

At the risk of opening myself to criticism and public shaming, I will reveal my secret. I have tried numerous placement methods including static distribution. After 100 or so 3-7wt. freshwater fly rods, I have settled on the following method and am 100% satisfied with it:

Step 1) Use St. Croix recommended guide spacing (not sizing though; I like smaller guides)
Step 2) Go fishing

I've gotten a couple e-mails so let me explain how I arrived at my preferred method. I used to do static distribution like you see in the article Tom wrote above in the library. Of course it works great. But, you have to start somewhere when you do this, so it was always my habit to start with the St. Croix spacing, then put the rod under load and then look for places where it looked like things needed to be moved. What I kept discovering over and over again was that the guides were fine where they were, with the very rare case where I might nudge a guide 1/8" or so up or down. Finally, I just decided that was a lot of time an effort to accomplish nothing so I just started going straight to the St. Croix spacing and wrapping it up.

Must do's: Guide on every ferrule, single foot guides, single foot strippers. Plastic winding checks (you never know when your want to replace a grip). Klass Kote epoxy paint. Mini-wax tint on cork.

Steve, that 1/8in. or so is the difference between, "It's close enough, -blank- it." and doing the best you can. I know you do good work, no offence is intended. John, if it works out that the guide is on a ferrule/joint, all well and good, if not it's where it needs to be. Search the posts on putting guides on joints and read the rest of the comments. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Don, can you tell me more about the single-foot guide sizes? Any tips on what size stripper guide(s) to use? I've always used stainless or TiCH single-foot snakes--do you ever use ceramic guides? I built one spinning rod, and tried the new concept system--is there a similar theory for fly rods? How about rod speed--does that affect your placement? (For example, would a fast rod--with a greater curve at the tip--generally need tighter spacing at the tip than a slower rod? Or am I stretching things?)

And Steve, you mentioned that you prefer smaller guides than what comes stock on St. Croix rods. Can you tell me more about the guide sizes you use, and how you pick the size? (I usually just get the "guide set" from Bob at Hook & Hackle--and this has worked great so far... But what if Bob didn't offer his sets, what would I do?)

Sorry to be asking so many questions, but this is really interesting stuff, and my wife refuses to chat about rods anymore. I'm also interested in putting together a Web site to help other beginners--but clearly I'm still a beginner, myself, and so would love to hear from the experts first.

John

Ralph, no offense taken. I don't consider or describe myself as a perfectionist and that system works well for me. Tell you the truth, I don't think I give anything up in rod performance or durability so I don't lose sleep over it.

John, I use #6 ceramic or #1 single foot wire near the tip of a fly rod designed to cast lines up to 7wt. or so. It just seems like there is no casting benefit with larger guides and it definitely deadens the responsiveness of the tip and makes the rod less crisp. St. Croix uses much bigger guides than necessary in my opinion. Not to single them out, though - most factory rods have guides that are too big I think. Sage uses nice small guides but they are all wire and I like ceramic on most rods. Smoother and quieter and no wear to guide or line.

Its exciting when one experiences an insight that changes the way you build a rod. In this example realizing that the use of St Croix's recommended spacing for their blanks is good enough.

I came to a similar conclusion when laying out spacings for open cheveron or diamond wraps - there are only three spacings that work for me. Spacings for thin, medium, and large diameter blanks. I layed out the marks for all three on on an aluminum straight edge. It works great and I don't have to measure anything - saves me a load of time and effort

With a med dia blank if I want a compressed spacing I use the marks for a small dia blank, elongated I use the large dia marks. If I want 90* I use the med dia marks. The lathe has indexed locks, so I simple lock the lathe at all four cardinal marks - 0, 90, 180, 270 - and lay the straight edge on the blank - centered - and transfer the marks. In less than 5 min I have the blank all marked up and ready for thread.

Lou

I started out using St. Croix specs for my guide spacing, but when I discovered static guide placement and tried it, I realized that in order to decrease then angle of line from guide to guide, the guide spacing may not increase incrementally in a linear fashion from tip to butt. Some rods bend in such a manner that guides may need to be bunched together slightly in areas where the rod bends most. I try to keep a guide on every ferrule if it doesn't compromise the reduction of angle too much, or isn't too near the reel. I have also found that through using static guide placement, many blanks do not require a guide as close to the tip as 4 inches or so like most generic placements dictate.

John. Most of my rods are 0 to 2 weights so I favor REC 4-3-2-2-1s to tip. Size #10 ceramic for a stripper. For a heavier rod 12-10-8-6-5s ceramics. 6 weight and above, I might use a 16-12-10-8-6s. The new Titans are priced right. For a rod with a lot of bend in the tip, I do bunch up the guides, sometimes 4 to 5 inches apart for the upper section, but always with an eye for that guide on the ferrule. I put guides on the ferrules first, then static distribute the rest. This sometimes puts an extra guide or two on the rod. Bob Meiser gets by with a very few guides on his switch rods, many fewer than normal.

I have compared several guide spacing charts over the years and have found that they are all remarkably similar in their measurements. Is only one of these charts "right"? I don't think so. I concur with most of the comments here...don't go coo-coo with this stuff. Find a chart, lay out the guides and do a quick static test JUST IN CASE...Chances are good that you won't have to move any guides.

Tight Lines,

Tim

TK's concept setup has served me extremely well on my last few builds. The static deflection helps me get them positioned for good stress distribution, and the test casts help me get the best line flow. It's all about tweaking what you start with for best performance.

I have been using either the Fuji concept chart (with my own guide sizes) or the Forhan equal distance chart. I use these as a starting place and tweak as needed. Typically I dont need to tweak the forhan chart at all.

Scott Sheets

What does a guide on every ferrule do? If you use a chart plus a guide on every ferrule you could have very uneven spacing and it would would look like a blind man built it. I know looks aren't everything but I think they play a major role in a high end fly rod.

You have to wrap the ferrule anyway so why not have it hold a guide also? If it just really won't work, don't do it, but I've found I can get nicely spaced guides that look like they distribute the load well and put a guide on each ferrule. I guess it's a matter of how much time you're willing to spend futzing with the guide spacing. Obviously for rods that have 5 or more pieces, you probably won't have a guide on the first ferrule above the butt section, depending on the length.