I bought a 9' 4wt graphite blank (fast action, tip flex, whatever you call it) which came with a tip which looks to be the size of the last snake guide....which is a #1. Soooo.....it came with snake guides of 3 #1's, 3 #2's, 2 #3's, and I don't know the two strip guide sizes, and a tip top. I read L.A. Garcia's book recommending oversized guides. This rod by the way is for a great spring fed trout stream only about 2 miles long, with NO obstructions for fly fishing. Don't want to get too lengthy but I know someone will ask what the rod is intended for. It might also serve as a panfish rod. I look at these snake guides (for a 4wt rod) and they are indeed smaller than the guides on my 9' 6wt Orvis. Do I want to figure the manafacturers got it all figured out, and don't try a bunch of stuff only to find out they right in the first place? Or, could I go with single foot larger guides to get more distance? If so....how big would one go.....Mr. Garcia says his smallest is a 2 and graduates up to a 6. That suitable for a 9' 4wt? This my first rod....and just curious before I tie on and glue the first guide. Apologize for length of msg. I have never been good at 10 words or less. (just subscribed to Rod Maker magazine so will be awhile before I get my first one)

Jim

It sounds like you bought a kit so you've already invested the money in these guides. Louis learned about oversized guides from Left Kreh a long time ago when guides on fly rods were still being sized for silk lines. These sound just fine. If I were building the rod, I'd use ceramics which would be smaller and I would still be able to cast as far as I need.

1. Your message was NOT too long.
2. You can build a good rod with the guides you have. I have a 4wt with a similar guide setup; it casts.
3. There are two schools of thought on guide size. You've read about one; the other is that you should use guides as small as possible (as long as they pass all the knots that you use) because smaller guides are lighter and the line won't "rattle around" in the guides when you cast it. Almost everyone on this board seems to follow the small guide philosophy.
4. If you're willing to spend more on guides - lots of builders would use ceramic guides for the running guides and tip top. Others would use single foot snakes. Single foot guides have one less wrap (doh) and therefore there is less weight on the rod, so when you cast the rod will cast a bit farther than with double foot (if you can handle the longer cast). It is up to you, what you guides you want to put on your rod. Just because you got those guides in your kit doesn't mean that you have to use them. BTW - lots of fly rod manufacturers use DF guides just because most buyers expect fly rods to have DF guides, not because of performance.
5. If you want to find the size of the stripper guides - use a millimeter ruler to measure the distance across the inside of the metal ring (assuming your guides have a metal ring with a "donut" of some other material inside the metal ring). You probably have 10 mm and 8 mm guides, or 12 and 10 mm guides.

Jim,

#1 sounds just fine to me. I've been using 1/0s or #1 single foot wire guides on my 4 weights. The trade off as I understand it is this: The larger guides cause less friction because a smaller area of the wire is in contact with the line at any given time which equates to greater distance and easier shooting of line. While smaller guides actually guide the line more which leads to increased accuracy. I would say that either #1 or #1/0 would be the best ballance of the two factors.

Mark

Go with what you have. Over-sized would be over-kill on this rod.

Jim,

It's simple larger guides equates to more weight - More weight bad - less weight good

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Jim--you've received some GREAT advice, IMO. Just to confuse the issue (I'm bored...sorry!) ;) specifically which blank are you building on? I ask simply because some blanks just BEG to have their performance potential maximized with sf ceramics, and with some others the cost/benefit isn't as extreme. One thing's for sure, I think you'll end up with a fine casting and fishing rod using the set that was included with the blank.

Since you've already invested the money, I'd just go ahead and use the snakes you have. However, if you're willing to wait for a few days, and don't mind dropping a few more bucks, buy a set of Fuji ceramics. Personally, I use SIC Fuji ceramics on all my fly rods--the SIC rings just seem to make that fly line absolutely fly through the guides. Many folks would say that the Alconite rings are just as good. As far as sizes go, I'd use sz. 6mm running guides, then a sz. 8 transition guide, and a sz. 10 stripper (all single foot fly guides--LSGs). I also use a "collection" stripper.

Here's what my typical set-up would look like on that size of rod: 10, 8 (4" away), 7, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, tip-top.

Check out the American Tackle Titans. Better cost then Fuji

Thanks everyone for advice. I sent a post yesterday thanking all but I don't see it here today. Probably another one of my boo boos. Anywhooo, all the tips really helped out a lot. I have been wafering on building this rod all winter long.....decision constipation. I read all the posts and boy, for some reason, just bouncing it off this board I am relaxed and ready to go. It is a 9' 4wt from JJ King. I am like a sponge.....I cannot consume or read enough about things I am interested in. Then comes the indecision. I now have another problem. A friend showed me how to measure and mark the rod. But I got a phone call while he was mounting the reel seat. He said "I am gluing.....I can't stop"....well it was an important call so I didn't get to watch. But here comes the big question. I can now find the spine on the tip section. He marked the butt section. But now that the reel seat and cork are mounted I am trying to verify the spine on this bottom section. First I thought he had them exactly opposite of each other. Now, I keep coming up with the spine, based on what I find now, off 90 degrees to the side? I really could live with the two sections with the spines exactly opposite....but with the bottom off to the side? I dunno man. I question this because I am still at the point where I can flip all the snake guides 180 to match his original spine mark on the butt section. In fact I have not attached anything yet. IS THERE A REAL GOOD WAY TO FOR REAL, PRECISELY, FIND THE SPINE ON MY BUTT......UH....."THE ROD BUTT" SECTION NOW THAT THE REEL SEAT AND CORK ARE ON? Or, does all that extra glued on stuff just skew it too much, and I be better off to just mount them as my buddy marked them? BTW.....thanks to all of you who take your time to help. It's amazing to see how many people read a post, and how so few offer help. I really appreciate those who stick their neck out and offer advise. You guys are what makes the real world go round. Thanks again.

READ
The FAQ's page and the Library page. All your questions should be answered. Good articals on setting up the guides, and tests for placement. Finding the spine and where to place guides acording to the spine.

Jim,

That sounds like a prety tough question. If the reel seat is already mounted my guess is you don't have much choice about where to put your guides on the butt section.

You can try to find the effective spine between the top of the grip and the tip of the section by supporting the rod at those two points and rolling it with downward pressure until you find the spine.

Good luck,

Mark