Do builders find that you get more casting distance from a tip top that is at a 45 degree from the blank, or more from one that has a slite forward tilt? I was just looking at some tip tops and never really checked this out. I would tend to say the forward tilt??
Thanks guys

I have been wondering about tops for quite a while. There seem to be a wide choice of tip/ring angles. Is there a reason? Casting guides on top, spinning and spiral. Is there any reason for using a particular style. The only reason that I "think" is that I use the ones with the highest tilt angle on casting rods, guides on top, on flippin sticks to keep the line looping to a minimum.

I would also like to have some information as to when to use which frame style. Is the choice of frame purely visual or to circumstances dictate the frame style. Do the reinforcing bars really add strength or will the fly tops do most of the time.

Gon Fishn



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2005 11:50AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
Tips are something that has bugged me for years. When you put a set of guides on a rod you almost always want as straight a line path as possible for the guides including the tip if you want the best casting characteristics. But if you look at the tips most sit down a little lower on the blank than the rest of the guides. In other words the hole in the tip does not line up correctly with the rest of the guides. This creates additional friction and losses. I do not think that the angle really makes any difference except that as you increase the angle you are essentially reducing the effective size of the hole in the tip as seen by the line.
I am not sure but I think that the guide manufacturers do this so as to reduce the torque on the rod at the tip. The higher the tip sits up on the blank the more torque there will be and this is the point where the torque would have the most affect.

This is why I use single foot guides for tip tops. That way you have the same ring height all the way out.

Mike,
I think that you are right. It looks like that is the only solution. I have not weighed the single footed guides but I think I will because I will bet that they will be a little lighter as well even with the additional wraps. They will be more fragile and will not protect the end of the blank as well but I guess there is a price to pay for everything.

To me it does seem that the forward tilt of a tip seems to help in better controll and distance when casting. Maybe just me?
Just wondering if any one else noticed this?

I've never really worried about the angle of the tip, other than if it throws the path of the line out. For example, I recently bought some oversize Tich hayforks and was disappointed to find that they forced the line closer to the blank compared to the single foot guides I was using, which makes no sense to me. Bending them is also useless because it cracks the Tich at the weld point. I'm tending towards lightweight Sz 6-7 ceramic tips more and more on my fly rods because of that problem (ceramics usually hang lower) and because the tip is where you'll most often encounter grooving anyway. When a few of the fly rod factories were experimenting with ceramics some years ago, I found another common problem was their fitting of ceramic tip tops with very small openings for the intended fly line (Daiwa springs to mind). Increasing the size of the tip often allowed the rods to shoot line much better (eg going from a 5.5 to 7ring on a 7 weight). If someone complains that their rod "just doesn't seem to shoot well", my first reaction is usually to see how restrictive the tip is to the clean flow of line and I'm surprised how often that's the problem (eg a hayfork with a very pronounced forward tilt). I've caught myself out a few times too. A couple of years ago I got hold of a 7 weight Diamondback Aeroflex blank and was initially disappointed with how it cast. Changing my choice of Sz 6 ceramic tip to a big hayfork saw that rod instantly reinvented as a cannon! Jim.