I'm doing 4 wraps of Gudebrod HT gold in size D to finish off my guide wraps at either end. On the side opposite the guide, I'm starting my thread butted against the guide wrap, and put a loop in right away. I just can't get the metallic wrap to stay tight when I pull the end underneath. I've even tried anchoring the initial wind with a touch of krazy glue, but when I go to trim the end I've pulled under, it seems like everything wants to come loose again. Unlike the non metallic thread, which has some stretch, and will hold down on itself, the metllic thread is very stiff and unyeilding.

Rich,
You may not want to do it this way but it is a lot easier and faster if you will start your guide wrap and after a few wraps put down the trim wrap and put a couple of the guide wraps over the top of the end of the trim wrap, then wrap the trim and the guide wraps simultaniously around the blank for one or two or however many trim wraps that you prefer. Then again wrap a couple of wraps of the guide wrap over the top of the trim wrap and then cut the end of the trim wrap off. After you have completed the guide wrap you can come back and trim off the other end of the trim wrap. Using this approach it is easy and fast to put down a single trim wrap and it will not come loose. The only draw back to this approach is you will have several wraps of the guide wrap, on the outside of the trim wrap. I use this technique because it hardly slows me down when wrapping the guides on and it never comes loose. There is one other disadvantage to this approach that you may not like. If you are not using color preserver you will want to trim the ends of the trim wrap after just a couple of wraps of the guide wrap because the tag ends will tend to show through the guide wrap if you do not use color preserver.

one of the things i discovered with metalics is that the gudebrod wantssto unravel for some reason. i also don't like to use it for tipping and trim because it is too thick i think. i have switched to sylky metalics and it is much eaier to work with and tapers off nice when used for tipping. get it at fabric stores.

when i do trim wraps i don't wrap over a loop. i do four wraps. wraping over the tag. then i take the tag that i have overwraped and wrap it around the rod about three spirel turns and tape it down. this holds tension on the wrap. now i take a thread loop and slide it under the thread coming of the spool and pull it around and under the wrap until i have it under all the wraps. now, keeping tension on the thread i wind my spool back one wind so now i have three wraps over the loop. i then cut the thread and pass it through the loop and pull it through carefully. the wrap is still under tension from the taped down tag end. i untape the tag and now i can pull on both tags and cinch up the wrap. this is easier to do than it is to describe and sounds like the "hard way" but because you are only passing the loop under four wraps it is no big deal. i use this same method for 5 or 7 wrap intermediates.

Rich,
I work with A thread, but I do my end bands over a loop and leave about 1" of tag on each end. What works for me to to wrap with very light tension, and assuming that it will all come loose, keep a thumb on the whole wrap and initial tag when I pull the loop. Then tighten the whole thing by pulling each end while moving the band into position. Once in place, trim the tags carefully or if I'm not feeling especially confident that day, put a drop of CP or even superglue down and let it dry before trimming.

I think if you do 5 wraps in HT A metallic it will be as thin or thinner looking as the 4 wraps in D and will be much easier to accomplish. I do two turns of threads, slide in my tieoff loop, then three more turns and it USUALLY holds.
If you look at the @#$%& weave pic I just posted today on the thread art section, the trim bands are 4 turns of Holland black/silver with 5 turns of A metallic blue on each side. I do cp this usually, unless feeling bold, prior to trimming. I keep thread tension fairly tight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2005 12:03AM by Jim Kastorff.

I agree with Larry that the Sulky metallics are easier to work with. I use the 142 7xxx series threads, similar to size A, and get them at Jo Ann's fabric store, I like the colors better than Gudebrod's anyway. I use a variation of the nail knot method (tape down the pull through loop first) and have no trouble with trim bands of from 3 to 6 turns.

I do what Emory suggests above. Wrap over the end of your trim thread with your guide wrap. It will be firmly anchord in place. Do your trim & pull the tag under the bands. Pull tight & cut. This method 'normally' works fine. I use Sulky about half the time. Color selection is good.

If your main wrap is nylon with no CP, you will be able to see the trim burried under it. That might be one drawback to this method. It's not a problem for me as I normally use NCP, CP, or lots of black nylon.

Jay



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2005 09:46AM by Jay Lancaster.

With my homemade wrapper at the start of the wrap I put the gold on first. 4 Turns and with the right tension it stays in place. After the 4 turns I then put the main thread to the left of the gold. After several turns I then cut the gold and get rid of the tag end. Wrap the guide.

Then at the end I put two loops in, finish the main wrap color, pull the end under. Then put the gold on after 4 turns pull that end under.

In you situation 4 turns of the gold should hold it together.
Your tension may be too light? Tighten and adjust untill it holds

Try weting the area under the gold, it may help to grip the thread better



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2005 09:59AM by bill boettcher.

Thanks, guys. I'd go to size A in a second, but I'm already committed. I'm doing Forhan locking wraps around single foot guides, doing the main wrap in NCP purple, then tying off and pulling a tag end of black, then doing the locking and security wraps in that color, and finally pulling a tag end of gold for the final four wraps. I'm having an okay time of it on that side. The difficulty seems to be when I go back and do the lower side, and the problem seems to be at trim time. I think I may have to give it a shot of ca to secure it before trimming, then hope everything will vanish under the epoxy.

Rich

Which way are you pulling the metallic thread to tighten. If you are pulling paralled with the blank the knot will not stay in place. You need to tighten the thread by pulling constant tension at a 90 degree angle with the thread. By pulling in this direction there will be a longer run of thread pulled under to hold the loops secure. Get a good feel for the tension your are pulling and then cut the tag about two inches long and let stay that way until you get ready to do the finish work. When you pull each piece to trim do not exceed the tension you pulled earlier on any single tag and get a pair of high quality cuticle nippers from a beauty supply store to do the final trim.

Nail Knots Forever! HT Metallic Never! Sulky or J Metallic Anytime!

Gon Fishn