I have seen the reference a number of times to a "bumper guide". What is it and what is it's purpose. I probably have used it and called it by another name. Thanks
Sanford

Hi Sanford,

It's a new spiral system where you use only 1 guide (bumper guide) to make the transformation from the top of the rod to the bottom. They say it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Not really. The 90 degree bumper guide plays no part whatsoever in taking the line to the bottom of the blank. It only serves as a "bumper" to keep the line off the blank as it skirts by on one side. The transition, transformation or whatever you want to call it as the lines moves from top to bottom, does not rely on the bumper guide to get it there.

The article is in the current issue of RodMaker. Bill Colby is the author.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2005 12:33PM by Tom Kirkman.

Sorry Sanford, I stand corrected

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

Thanks,
But how does that differ from any guide used in the transition position of the spiral wrap? I transition my guides according to how the line flows to the 180 position.
Sanford

It is a new concept in the transition from top to bottom, from what I can tell. Next, we'll just use a choker or stripper guide and a tip top and call it a day !!!!!!!!!!

Tight lines,

Art
mrparramoure@yahoo.com

This post may get removed but I’m going to have my say and if it’s removed so be it.

I have read, re-read and re-read again the article on "The Simple Spiral". I have studied the drawings and photos and I see a system that looks like it will work great. What upsets me is this play on words. This play on words started long before the Big Show or the release of the latest issue of RodMaker Magazine. Basically its 2 strikes you’re out.

For us that did not go to the big show for one reason or the other and see this rod in person. - Strike 1.

For those of you that do not subscribe to RodMaker Magazine – Strike 2

Sanford I would really like to answer your question but my terminology of words would be wrong so go back to a post on April 16 “The Simple Spiral” and that may help you understand what this new setup is. Like I stated before this looks like a setup that will work great but as for anything new people are going to have question and this play of words is just wrong.

Sanford Email me direct if I can assist you in any way – I have the article in front of me and will be glad to help you out.


Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

I'm not aware of any play on words. There has always been some problem with the definition of what the term "transition guide/s" mean. In the general use of how guides are used to take the line from the top of the rod to the bottom of the rod, the Bumper differs greaty because it is not playing any role in taking the line to the bottom of the rod. You can call it what you want, but it does not play the same role as the off-axis guides on most spiral wraps. I'm already getting emails from people who are setting up single 90 degree transition guides on their rods and wanting to know why things are not working the way we said they would. It's because they are using the 90 degree guide to transition the line to the bottom of the blank - their spacing is off and it's because they didn't read the article. They just heard it was all about using a single 90 degree transition guide, which it's not.

As far as those who didn't go to Charlotte or who don't subscribe to RodMaker, there are no strikes other than self imposed ones. You have to be aware that those who attend events or subscribe to informational publications will be privy to certain information that others will not be. If this were not the case, there would be no rod building events nor rod building magazines. The idea that those who do not attend or do not subscribe should be able to get the exact same information in the same form just isn't feasible. You cannot present on a message board what is done in very in-depth magazine articles accompanied by photos.

We ran into the same thing with the special show prices that many vendors had in Charlotte. Some who couldn't go wanted those same special prices via mail-order. If they were given, there would be less reason for anyone to go to the show. If the information contained in the magazine didn't require a subscription to acquire, then the magazine would have no reason (nor be able) to exist. (And make no mistake, much of the modern rod building information that has been hot over the past few years was brought to the craft through the pages of RodMaker.)

Everyone has a choice - you can spend the money and effort to have the best and most in-depth information at your fingertips, or you can pick up bits and pieces via message boards and whatnot. In fact, the reason this message board exists is because I didn't want everyone to have to attend a show or subscribe in order to be able to get rod building help or information. No one is withholding anything here. But no message board will ever nor can ever suffice for something like RodMaker or a direct person to person demonstration.

.............

According to three dictionairy's I consulted, "Transition" is defined as;

"A change or passage from one condition, state, subject, place, etc to another."

So, failing any particular rod building usage for a definition which I cannot find written down anywhere, I would say that a "Bumper" guide is most definitely NOT any sort of transition guide.

The line transitions from the top of the rod to the bottom of the rod. I would think that any guides that are part and parcel of that transition would be correctly termed "transition guides." Since the Bumper guide does not play any role in that transition from top to bottom, I think it would be better and less confusing not to refer to as a transition guide.

I would offer my own definition of the Bumper guide with this;

"Any guide whose sole purpose is to keep the line from touching the blank on other than the 0 or 180 degree axis and which plays no role in transitioning the line from the top to the bottom of the rod."

I can easily see how people who are told that the Bumper system is a single 90 degree transition guide spiral wrap system will be misled. I've seen plenty of single 90 degree transition guide spiral systems in my time and none of them are similar to the Bumper system. This is why I think it is important not to refer to the Bumper guide as a transition guide. It only muddies the water and keeps the person asking from getting accurate information.

I should add that those wishing to know what this is all about should really get the magazine and read the article. I personally thought that it was very well written and easy to understand. It was short and to the point but I can also see why it might be hard to duplicate the author's effort in something like a forum board message. I fear that a lot of bad information is going to be spread about this very well thought system simply because of incorrect or misunderstood terminology or the idea that it is a spiral wrap that uses a single transition guide.

I do hope that the small uproar above was not a statement to the effect that Tom is supposed to print all his magazine articles on this site on in forum messages. I do subscribe to the magazine and like it and I would be very upset if non-subscribers ever had access to that same information. I can see how it would kill the magazine and ultimately stop so many of the unique ideas and information that the magazine brings all of us in one way or the other. Non-subscribers already benefit greatly from Rodmaker just by the trickle down effect of the information that spills out of it and onto these forums. They may not get every speck of information and they should not, but they do get a GREAT deal of information from the magazine anyway.

Thanks for all the responses to my question. I do get the Rodbuilder magazine, but apparently did not receive the issue you all are referring to. What is the date of that issue? I understand completely what you are trying to explain--" the bumper guide is not a transition guide since it's purpose is not to guide the line to the tip". Having said that, is the guide any particular size or does that have a bearing. I would appreciate the article Hank offered to send me. My e-mail is sanhoch@comcast.net. If you would go to my e-mail, I will give you my address, and thanks for the offer. I did not intend to raise a hornets nest with the question nor extend it to the conclave. Perhaps after reading the article, I will understand how and why a bumper guide is used. Thanks again.
Sanford

The gibberish at the end of my e-mail was supposed to be the word conclave. I struck the wrong keys.
Sanford

I haven't got the issue yet, either, Sanford. But it'll soon be here. I did have the opportunity to play with this rod in Charlotte.
If you went to the post that Hank mentioned, your last questions will be answered, too!
Looks like a great system and I'll be using it on my next spirals.

Putter
Williston, ND

Sanford,

I did not and would not offer to send a copy of the article that was in RodMaker Magazine as that would be a copyright violoation. I did offer to answer any questions and help you with this as many other rod builders have helped me in the past. On April 16 Tom posted all the info needed (except photos) to set this system up so I'm not disclosing anything new.

The only part of that post I take exception with is "At this point just go fish it, or if you're worried about the line rubbing the blank between the 0 and 180 degree guides, add the smallest and lowest frame guide you can find at 90 degrees and exactly halfway between the first and second guide. Do not adjust spacing." To tell someone to build a rod that will have the line rubbing the blank and go fish it is just wrong.

Ok, I mispoke - It's not a transition guide it's a item that is put on the blank so your line does not damage the blank. I'd say that little item is a very important item in the system.



Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

HI ALL,
A secret tip for people seeking information from RODBUILDER MAG. , try what I do, write Tom and order earlier copies.


Dave von Doehren
PRRODS......If man built it , man can fix it.and if man built it man can break it !

I don't use the bumper on the ones I've built. The line rubs the blank. The blank is protected with Permagloss. These are lighter line rods not meant for things like tuna - on those and similar I use a Bumper guide. I suspect something better than a line guide will eventually be used for the bumper by some innovative rod builder.

I don't see any of this as an uproar, just maybe an opportunity to clarify some things. After every new issue of RodMaker comes out, I'll get many, many dozens of emails and phone calls from non-subscribers asking me to send them a copy of the article they want, or to put it up in the online library here or just take a half hour of my time and explain it to them personally, as it was done in the article. (I"ve answered over 100 emails on the Bumper system in the past two weeks - most of these were for non-subscribers who had heard about it and wanted to know more about the technique and how to set it up.)

It's hard to know how to respond to such requests. I don't like to turn anyone down and I keep this board up so everyone can get the info they want. By the same token, when some (not necessarily anyone here) expect me to take my limited time and give them personal instruction on a topic they were not willing to spend $6 on ($4.50 by subscription), well, I don't think that's fair. I owe my subscribers, but not anyone else (although I still do my best to help non-subscribers as time permits).


........

Sanford,

Yes, when your issue arrives you'll immediately see how to set it up very easily. It's just one of those things that isn't completely easy to get across in a short, text-only, message board post.

The best way I've found to explain it, and the way I have explained it to many before the article came out, is to set your rod up just like you would any conventional casting rods with the guides on top. Then flip all but the butt guide to the bottom and add a small #10 or #8 low frame casting guide on the 90 degree axis directly halfway between the butt and the next guide. Do not adjust the spacing of those guides nor change anything else.

That's the simplest way I know of to explain it, but I still get questions. This is why the article is so helpful - the photos and diagrams say what words can't, or at least don't say very well.

...........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2005 04:44PM by Tom Kirkman.

Bumper guide may be a confusing term.

Maybe "shoulder guide" would be more descriptive.

Or maybe since what we are talking about is not really acting as a guide, maybe it should be called something like a "standoff" which is more in keeping with it's function.

But the problem is that a guide is used to keep the line from rubbing on the blank as the line goes from the top to the bottom of the blank. The term "guide" just seems to naturally want to be in the name.

As Tom alludes to, this may eventually be changed to be called "bumper strip" or "rub rail" or something on that order. A guide being used for the bumper is something that someone may find another material/object to replace soon.

Putter
Williston, ND

I think the confusion is with those who haven't had access to the article. Most RodMaker subscribers have seen the photos and the diagrams. It was written for them and like many articles that appear in the magazine, it's sometimes hard to convey the concept to those who are trying to gain information in bits and pieces via message boards.

Bill wrote the article and he named it. I have no idea if it's the best name or not, but I strongly suspect that no matter what he had called it, the same questions would be coming up from people who haven't read the article and seen the corresponding photos and diagrams. In other words, I don 't think there is any term you could use that would explain the system in a single word. We'll see.

.................

I've probably had 50 or 60 e-mail messages so far. About half were from people telling me how good the system works and the other half were people who hadn't read the article and were asking me to explain it to them. I already explained it in the article and would suggest they buy it.

Three people have asked me to send them electronic copies of the article. I won't do it. I had no idea this kind of thing went on behind the scenes until I had this first article published.