Thinking about trying burnt cork. It looks awesome! But I was wondering about the durability of. Is it any less durable than regular cork? If it's anything like wood, it would seem that it's less durable and more likely to chip/flake/fall apart after burning.

And maybe I'm showing that I don't really understand what burnt cork is. Is it truly burnt? I guess that makes two questions in this thread. The first one about durability is more important if you feel like you can only answer one.

Thanks, fellers.

If you're talking about Andy Dear's cork, It's not actually burnt and I believe that it's much more durable than regular cork. Awesome stuff!

Mike

Hi Aaron,
Allow me to answer your questions (since I am the one who has developed this second generation of Burnt Cork). First off, the Burnt Cork I sell is actually VERY durable, especially if you put a coating on it (like most people do as it enhances the grain). The "original" Burnt cork of the 70's and 80's was somewhat different in composition. The original binding agent was not as strong, and the granules were oriented differently, the material tended to flake quite a bit if abraded at all even with a fingernail. The Burnt cork that I have developed is a more advanced material. The binding agent is definately stronger and harder. Some folks have weighed the new burnt cork and have said that it is on the average of 4x heavier than Burl Cork....yes thats true. BUT it is also 4x harder and denser. It's ironic to me that everyone wants to make note of the weight...but then they complain about the inconsistent quality of burl cork...and even regular cork having voids, pits holes, bark inclusions etc...Well, that's why it's not as heavy...because it's not as dense! You can't have it both ways; if you want a material that is very dense with a minimum of pits, voids and holes then by nature it will usually be a bit heavier. However the extra weight is not at all unpleasant, and feels very nice in the hand. In addition, the texture of ALL of my exotic cork is amazing. It has this "magic" property of developing a sort of velvety traction between your hand and the grip when it gets wet! (if you coat it you lose some of this property).
I did quite a bit of R & D with this material before putting it on the market, and it seems every bit as durable as regular cork, without all of the hassle of dealing with pits and voids! Plus there is ZERO variance in consistency from batch to batch, yes I said ZERO variance (unlike Burl Cork).

Oh, and yes Burnt cork is Truly "burnt" that is how the minor variations in color are produced, through a baking process allowing each granule to change color in a natural way. Since each granule will color a bit different a grain pattern is achieved.

Please let me know if you have anymore questions!

Andy Dear
Lamar Manf.

While I didn't design it, I don't sell it, and I haven't used much of it - if you are worried about the durability vs cork - don't. Although I haven't used teh rod I built with it, it doesn't take a cork formulator to tell that it will be much more durable than regular cork. I saw the stuff that ws said about how it feels and all that stuff Andy typed above, and at first I thought it was a sales pitch. After actually seeing it, and now having worked with it I can say that there is no doubt it feels great in my hand, both dry and wet, both sealed and unsealed (U40 Cork Seal).

Buy enough for one rod and make a determination on your own as to whether you like it or not. Wit all the money you've probably dumped on regular crap...u... cork rings, it can't hurt to spend $30 on some rings which are MUCH different and imo better (feeling & looking) than any other cork product out there. imo

So,
I am standing at my booth in Charlotte Friday night (before the Charlotte show) setting up displays and Billy Vivona comes up to look at this rod I built with Burnt cork and some inlays with the Exotic Burl Copano pattern. He picks it, fondles it a bit and then says "You know, when I first saw this stuff on your website I thought it looked like "delete expletive" but now that I see it in person...it's awesome!

If a hard nosed long haired yankee boy like Billy say's it's good, I think it's probably gotta be good!

Andy

You can add a short haired northern redneck to the list, Andy. The stuff is beautiful and durable; obviously durable! Yeah, it's heavier, but lord is it nice!! Easy to work with, too. No pits, no filling.

(Yeah, I wear white socks and drink blue ribbon beer)

Putter
Williston, ND

Count this bald headed Yankee to the list of afficionados of Andy's improved burnt and patterned cork rings. For me this cork was the best new product in the entire National Rodbuilding Convention. Andy, I hope you remember us little guys when your cork catches on with the big manufacturers. I think this is going to be your "oil well", my Texas friend.
Regardng the weight/ density issue, if one were to bore a wider hole in the grip and use a length of graphite blank as an arbor to reduce weight, would the cork hold up well if the ring wall was reduced to say 1/4" ?
Short sections of flexcoat arbors could connect the sleeve to the blank and the cork would be adhered to the sleeve. Just an idea. Personally I like the Tennesee grip approach on the non- fly rods and the extra weight on a fly grip is placed where it has the least effect; so to me it is not a big issue.
Dave
P.S. Andy... I'll be all set in three weeks to complete my purchase. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Just thought I would add my opinion. I have bought 3 batches of the burnt/exotic cork from Andy. As always the service and rapid shipping was excellent. I have built 5 grips to date and have them on rods ranging from a 4 to 10 wt fly rods. I build my grips off the rods completely and then ream to fit. Sanding with 60, 100, 150, and 320. These rings produce alot of dust when sanding. When you clean the grip, you will get a good visual on what they will look like with U40 cork seal. Actually I have found that drywall sand paper lasted the longest. Here is what I have learned:

1. Very tough.
2. Consistent ring size, etc.
3. Definitely heavier, but have not found balancing the rods to be an issue.
4. I have found that I need to make sure that the glue is very dry (now I wait overnight) before any power reaming.
5. Looks great with U40 cork seal, if you opt for a second coat and some shining (like the description on Mudhole) you can get even more grain. I only did this on one - as I did not like the shiney quite as much.
6. To my eye, it is easier for me to see the glue lines compared to the colored burl rings - but not bad.
7. This stuff will eat your hand reamers for lunch - and I would encourage you to be careful that some grit has not gotten embedded inside or you can put a nice scratch on your blank when sizing. I use a fine grit to clean the inside.
8. I like the feel in my hand - have not used them in the rain yet, but do not feel that the grip will be too slick.

The one I like the best is to use the burnt cork with the 1/4 exotic rings as accents - I think used spalted maple burl as a front hosel on two and liked the look very much.

Overall, I really appreciate the service and contribution to building special rods.

zach

Andy: You said above that your new cork is "4X heavier than Burl Cork." Actually it's lighter than that, what it is is about 4X heavier than regular cork (I weighed batches). The composite burl corks that are commonly available run about 3X heavier than regular cork, so your new burl is just a bit heavier than those other burls. (Did I make sense?) BTW, I really do like your darkest rings as accent bands, they sand really smooth and look great.

No more hair. lol.

One of the things I haven't tied yet, but I will - is to use it as a split grip on light SW rods. One of the problems these rods run into is when you use cork/EVA , there is little weight in the butt to balance a rod properly. Some people have resorted to adding weight in the butt to balance their rods. Instead of that, just substitute this stuff and the rod will probably balance perfectly.

Has anyone tried using the FC drill bits instead of a reamer? I know the FC bits tear regular cork (at least mine do), but these rings are so tough and dense, I think they would leave a perfect hole, thus saving your reamers. I have a nice 4" bald spot on one of my reamers now, which was in need of replacement anyhow.

I used them to drill out to 3/8" on the last one that I did; worked just fine. Went to 5/16" first, then to 3/8".

Putter
Williston, ND

Tom,
That makes perfect sense! Thanks for clarifying that...I must have not paid attention (my wife would say that's typical).

By the way, I'll have an interesting announcement regarding the exotic burl coming up soon...possibly two interesting announcements.


Andy Dear
Lamar Manf.

I have built a few fly rod handles out of the exotic burl, which looks different from the burnt burl but I suspect has the same durability properties. The stuff seems like exactly the material to use on a rod you want to last forever under heavy use. It feels so good and is so nice to work with that I would probably buy it even if it was lime green. The fact that it happens to be very attractive and available in multiple patterns and colors is a nice bonus. Put it this way, I'm not planning on buying any more regular cork rings, unless someone specifically asks me to build a handle with regular cork. Once my existing cork inventory is used up, it's going to be Andy's improved cork products from now on. It costs a lot less than the best cork (which often is not that good but just priced high), is easier to work with, and is better looking. Definitely one of the more exciting rodbuilding products to come out lately in my opinion.

Hi
I am in Scotland,
Where can I buy this product?
Dave Olley

Lamar Reel Seats. Link is to the left.

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