I have been using Graphite-USA blanks for inshore rods, however, I am now looking at United Rods blanks. They are both from Hasting Rod Manufacturing, both have identical specs for the blanks. The differance, I have been told, is the United Rods have a fiberglass "scrim" in the blank. I asked if that makes them composite blanks but was told. no! So what is a fiberglass "Scrim"?

Jim,
In almost all graphite blanks, with just a few exceptions, every other layer is called scrim and is fiberglas. The graphite fibers run straight up the blank but the glass fibers in the srim are an an angle across the blank. They are there mainly to give the blank hoop strength or strength against twisting, crush and shear forces.

Jim,
The Glossary section above is a wonderful resource with brief and clear defintions of most of the terms that apply to rod building. Just another great part of this web site.
Dave

The reason this does not make them "composite" blanks in the manner that most rod builders speak of, is that scrim fiber and the direction it is inlaid into the prepeg does not appreciably add to the stiffness/power of the blank. It is usually quite thin, and in some cases instead of a cloth is a chopped fiber mat.

Generally when a company says a blank is a composite they are speaking of the power fibers being a combination of a variety of different materials or a variation of the same material in the same structure.

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Jim if you want to get answers from the source copntact Roy at hastingsrod@sbcglobal.net. He is the man and has a fantastic operation. He showed me all the secrets and spent most of the morning with me.

I'm sure Jim has contacted & been to Hastings, the problem is the explanation Roy has given is over both of our heads, lol.

Doc,
The approach that Hastings, and one other manufacturer that I know of, takes is really an interesting one of wrapping the graphite around the rod at an angle to the long axis of the blank or in a helix. They say dual helix or one layer is wrapped in one direction and the next in the other direction. This is the way that graphite scrim is sometimes used because graphite unlike glass does not like to be bent at a sharp angle which can be a problem for graphite particularly near the tip of a blank. With this type of construction I am not sure that they would even need to have layers of what we would call scrim.
I can see how this would have some advantages in terms of the resistance to torque, crush and shear but it seems to me that it also has some disadvantages. The disadvantages are mainly the result of the fact that the modulus of elasticity of the graphite effectively drops as a function of the angle that they wrap it. For example, if it is wrapped at a 45 degree angle the modulus is cutt in about half. This means that about twice as many layers will have to be used to get the same stiffness in the blank that would be gotten if the graphite fibers ran straight up the rod and this will naturally translate into higher weight. But maybe not any more weight than would be the case using conventional construction and glass scrim, depending upon the glass scrim. However, they will not get the higher toughness (strain energy) that the glass scrim results in. Wrapping the graphite at an angle does not change the toughness of the graphite but the lower modulus glass does have higher toughness.
I would love to talk to you or Roy about the "secrets". Is he an engineer at Hastings?

Roy HASTINGS is the owner of Hastings Rod Manufacturing, which makes theGUSA's/United/Pioneers.

I think what you just said is the way they build the blanks, they are heavier than they "should" be, or could be? I don;lt think there is any doubt they are slightly heavier than other graphite blanks, but at the same time they are extremely strong & have a unique bend to them when a fish is on.

Most of the GUSA blanks are thick-walled small-diameter contruction. They're somewhat heavier than other blanks of similar power/stiffness due to that type construction. They use that construction due to much of what Emory just mentioned. Great blanks, and the design lends itself to a more than reasonable amount of "toughness" for a graphite blank. But they won't be the most efficient blanks around either. Not necessarily a knock on them - in many applications they are among the best choice you can make.

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Billy,
Yes, I can see how they would tend to become less eliptical when flexed and also how they would tend to twist less which are their main claims. But I suspected, without ever having seen one, just what Tom has said that they are going to be heavier for their stiffness and less efficient than conventionally constructed blanks. What this means to me is that they will probably make good boat rods but will not be as good as conventionally constructed blanks when used in casting applications, much like the blanks that use a combination of glass and graphite for the fibers that run straight up the rod in addition to using glass scrim.

Sorry guys but I have to disagree this time in a big way. I have build nearly every brand of graphite rod on the market Loomis, St Croix, etc. and find GUSA to be very good and more than durable. I have used their blanks for everything from 4 lb to 20 lb for both fresh and saltwater applications and they do just fine. I may not be an engineer and understand things from that standpoint but I know fishermen and their needs and there are a lot of blanks out there that provide less than GUSAs. As for the casting issue, If they arent good for casting then its good I dont use more efficient blanks because I can cast my gear out of site. If there is a heart ache out here with them it is in the cost, but then I havent had to ship any back for replacement either. Cant say that for either of the aformentioned. Sorry guys no complaints about GUSA here, nothin but atta boys.

Doc,

You might have mis-read some of what has been said here - I don't think anyone here would ever say, nor has said, that GUSA doesn't make one of the finer blanks on the market. Their quality is top notch and the blanks get the job done under conditions that many others won't stand up to. But the design philosophy and construction method means you have a blank which is not quite as efficient as some of the other makes. They have traded a little off the performance/efficiency end to gain a little on the "toughness" end. Nothing wrong with that - it's a matter of what you want your blanks to do and what your customers require that they do.

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Doc,
I certainly did not mean to suggest that they were not fine blanks. In fact, I have never had one in my hands. I just thought that the approach that they take to designing the blank was interesting and would have both advantages and disadvantages. It occured to me that with the graphite fibers at an angle they might be able to eliminate scrim entirely. Do you know if the blanks do or do not have scrim and if it is glass?

Emory - I know their United's have Glass Scrim, as Chef pointed out in the original question. I do not know if the GUSA's have a scrim or not They are AWFULLY busy right now, and it's hard to get in contact with Roy - if you get him on teh phone he's very helpful and answers all questions, even the dumb ones which I usually ask.