Anyone have any tricks or hints to trimming with metallic thread. I having a hard time keeping it on the rod, it's very slippery. I tried to make the nail knot method work, which I think would be perfect, but I couldn't quite complete it. Bruce

Bruce, Practice is all you need, I'm sorry to say. Try practicing with regular A thread and when it works consistantly then do it with metalic thread until you get the hang of it. The nail knot type trim rings are the way I make trim rings. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

Hi Ralph!
I think my problem stems from the fact that I'm tying a nail knot with 1 piece of thread instead of joining 2, such as a fly line and butt section of leader. With the conventional loop pull through method, I think I'm winding it too tight, so when I cut it, it spring loose. I wasn't thinking about metallic thread having some springy stretch to it.
Thanks
Bruce "Goose" Tomaselli

Bruce: Like Ralph says, practice. Metallic is springier than regular, but it can be done. Using the method I described to you (putting the pull-through loop down first), I used to have a lot of metallic trim bands fly apart on me, but now it rarely happens (less than 1 in 20), and no big deal when it does, only takes a minute to tie another one.

try placing color preservative on the blank. let it dry. then try your wrapping. this will help hold the wrapp on the rod


CP

I use a two wrap trim ring and find that sulky metallic holds better for me than gudebrod as a rule but practice and patience are the key. Once you have the trim ring in place a dab of CP or PermaGloss works great for securing yhe wrap. I apply one first and trim the tag ends after it's dry.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Bruce I have used the nail knot method numerous times and found that it works ok except for the tell tale loop bump, so I use the method that is described in the Clemens rod book, whereas you have the guide set where you want it , and then take a length of metallic thread about 6 inches long or so and tape it on the blank paralell to the blank, tape both ends one end beyond the foot of the guide and about 2-3x the length you intend to wrap, 2 bands etc, anyhow enough to handle with the fingers easily, and also do the same method with the pull through loop , with the loop extending beyond the foot end of the guide, and tape it also , then begin to wrap the guide thread around the rod getting it on enough rotations to hold utilizing the tension of the thread also , approximately 6 turns and then stop. Then take the metallic thread and wrap the amount of band widths you want, but not turning the rod , making the metallic thread rotations by hand. when satisfied, insert into the pull through loop and pull under the guide thread, until it matches or makes the trim ring, and then clip the metallic thread and continue with the rest of the guide wrap. In the instance of double foot guides make the thread extend to the right the same distance and repeat the same step on the other trim ring. It is hard to explain but the trim rings are always concentric, and never come loose, or show the knot, and don't need cp to hold them down. good luck

I'll second Stans suggestion. I get my trim in place, pack it tight, and leave 2" tag ends, which can be pulled again...and agan, to snug it down. Then just a small drop of CP on the overlap, and move on to the next wrap. When all your trims are done, start back at the first one you did, and carefully cut the tag ends.
RB

I have to "third" that suggestion. I used to create trimbands individual of the main body of the guide wrap. If you like them small, just two to three turns, I have found that it is "nearly" impossible to get them down without adding a few steps like CP, SuperGlue, or creative knot tying. Now, I always place the trim band material underneath the main guide wrap thread taped to the blank as described above. I pack the guide wrap thread tight and finish it completely, then go through the process of finishing it off with the trim band wrap. If you wrap it around the blank in the correct direction, the pull through will sort of create a half knot and enough friction that it won't come free unless your rough with it. Important note: When finishing the trim band wrap, pull the thread through under light wrap tension. Then when you have the tag end under and jammed up between the inside edge of the trim band and the main thread of the guide wrap, begin packing it in tight and pull on the trimband thread at the same time. I try not to cut the tag end pull through so close to the wrap that it springs out. I leave maybe a 1/32" (maybe even less) of the tag end. Once there is enough build up of wrap coating, the customer will never notice it. This technique has allowed me to get very artistic with multiple thread colors and trim bands within the main body of the guidewrap thread. Reference the 2Wt Travel Rod on the photo board (just posted) to see the latest creation that I had spoken about previously in other posts. The guide wraps have a trimband of two turns HT silver, 5-8 turns of black, one turn of HT silver, two turns of black, three turns of HT metallic blue, two turns of black, on turn of HT silver, and then the black thread finishes up the guide foot to the end. I have done this pattern or a variation of it on two other rods with great results. The effect is stunning and makes you look like you know magic to "some" people. Who doesn't like being told that they have some serious skills, when afterall I just started doing this! hehehehh


Good luck!

Domenic Federico

Bruce,

Here's how I do it and have no problems at all. The secret is to tape a tie off loop on the blank before you do the trim wrap. Works great. I can't seem to get my big fingers to do the nail knot.

Hank
On The Rocks Fishing
Wells, ME.

I used the Clemens method until Stan Grace posted something about using a Clove Hitch. For two or even three turn trim wraps it beats the Clemons method in terms of simplicity and speed. Beyond three turns it can get kind of hard to control, at least for me.

A good diagram for making a nail knot can be found by clicking on the following

[www.netknots.com]

Thanks. I can nail knot a butt section of leader to a fly line I should be able to do this. I'm going to trim my rod tonight. Thanks

Here is a good illustration of a clove hitch or two wrap nail knot: [www.goals.com]
All ex sailors and Boy Scouts should be familiar with it.


Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2005 02:29PM by Stan Grace.

Right, Stan-I was a boy scout 40 years ago; if it wasn't for the links, I wouldn't have a clue how to nail that knot...

Putter
Williston, ND